 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2016-02-21 22:09
While you check out the Harbor Freight feeler gauges, also take a look at the telescoping bore guages- a set of six for $14.99. Should be very handy.
Jerry
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-02-23 00:20
Attachment: Reed Case.jpg (6k)
Attachment: LEGO-Creator-Lakeside-Lodge.jpg (41k)
I feel that way about A LOT of music stuff. Ligatures anybody? $5 for a plastic ligature cap?
The reed case above is $30.
The Lego set above is also $30, actually $1 less than the reed case.
Now tell me that makes any sense. Even with volume/niche market considerations, it's absurd. There is more material, more pieces, different colors, more molds, more complex and precise molds, more advanced manufacturing, fancier packaging, more marketing, more r&d, more labor, more everything in the Legos.
In some cases the things music vendors sell really do have some work in them, even if they seem simple, because they're made individually by hand. Mouthpieces are a good example. Some guys make instrument tools that seem expensive for the same reason, they're made individually by hand. And of course, just sourcing the stuff and providing you with exactly what you need is of value.
Of course it's not just music stuff.
My painter boss liked harbor freight. He said that if the tool broke and he had to buy another one (in case HF didn't replace it), he still saved money. Sometimes you only really need a tool once. I think I was starting to bring him over to my side of preferring nice tools though.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-02-23 15:24
Many years ago I would also think it's absurd, but once you know what it's like to actually manufacture something like this it makes complete sense.
I have no idea where the Theo Wanne set is made and what is the difference in accuracy. There's also the difference in market, the cheap set is sold almost entirely not to musicians or mouthpiece makers. The Theo Wanne set seems to be marketed towards those, so a tiny market in comparison.
The cheap set is probably good for 99% of everything. I have one too. If you don't know that you need something better... you probably don't
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2016-02-23 19:06
I have not seen any economical feeler gage sets with sizes over .050". Most only go to .035". While not needed for soprano clarinet facing work, larger sizes are needed to do good facing work on bass clarinet and sax mouthpieces. Stacking the gauges can be done but is not as accurate as having the larger size gauges.
I have purchased feeler gauge sets from Eastern Industries. If you only get one custom set with larger sizes, the cost is over $200. If you buy 20 sets, the cost gets closer to $100/set. I have purchased 20 sets a few times and sold them on my web site. But it took 2 years to sell out. For Theo to sell his set for a profit, he needs to buy a large lot and/or find a low cost supplier, or both.
You should measure the accuracy of any feeler gauge set you buy with a micrometer or at least calipers. With the cheap sets, a few of the sizes will sometimes differ by .001" from what is marked.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-02-24 21:22
As Nitai eluded to, bringing product to market can be enormously expensive and difficulty. From design, to liability, to shelf space, to sale, that cost has to be divided between each unit sold, which in music product sales, is a relatively small marketplace. No doubt these facts play a role, along, yes, with greed and hype in what vendors charge for product.
I could spend volumes writing about Harbor Freight: the good, bad, and ugly. This is not the forum. Suffice it to say that some of their items are great values, others deliver (and cost) little, and yet others are junk. Independent Youtube reviews can be helpful in sorting the company's wares out.
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-02-25 21:56
I would expect that Theo's gauges are very high quality, and they are a lot better than what you get at the hardware store. There's no way I can afford them, but I don't make mouthpieces.
At the same time, taking all things into account, I think there are a lot of music products, especially the cheap plastic stuff, that we get soaked for. I'm not sure that translates into the seller making a pile of dough, because a lot of them go out of business or get bought.
Nonetheless, I do feel that the reason SOME things are so expensive is that we buy them at virtually any price.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-02-26 00:53
I don't question Theo's gauges to be of higher quality than the Harbor Freight ones. My intrigue lies with how each should be fairly priced relative to their quality--which may be---exactly where they're priced; although I suspect not.
Some people buy stuff Matt BECAUSE the price is high, contrary to basic economic theory. They perceive value in such purchases to equate with price and/or enjoy the bragging rights. Often, the former relationship isn't true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffen_good
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2016-02-29 08:39
I'm a machinist with no instrument repair background ...
Feeler gauges are appropriate for measurements between solid surfaces, when you can test the fit by sensing the drag on the gauge. I would not use them with flexible or compressible materials (e.g. a reed), because it is impossible to tell when the gauge is deflecting the reed instead of barely contacting it. Try your feeler gauges .020", .021", .022" etc. and see if you can really tell which is the right one. Also, the gauge must be exactly parallel to both surfaces as the measurement is made. (A piece of wire would be better.) In machine shop language, I'd say the feeler gauge is good for +/- .002 or so.
Spring steel feeler gauge strips are cheap, $1-$2 for a 12" strip. Wider gaps are tested by stacking thinner strips.
For tip openings, I'd wish for an optical comparator, which is just a fine measuring scale mounted beneath a magnifying lens. There are pocket versions, but they run $75+
by the way, Harbor Freight has the lowest quality of any vendor I've used - caveat emptor
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-02-29 12:32
John Morton wrote:
> Feeler gauges are appropriate for measurements between solid
> surfaces, when you can test the fit by sensing the drag on the
> gauge. I would not use them with flexible or compressible
> materials (e.g. a reed), because it is impossible to tell when
> the gauge is deflecting the reed instead of barely contacting
> it.
Facing curves are measured between the mouthpiece rails and a piece of glass held against it with graduations marked along the glass to read where the feeler stops. So the issue of soft or compressible surfaces isn't really an issue in that application.
Karl
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2016-02-29 18:23
Some players check for Reed swell by using a .0015" feeler between the Reed and the mouthpiece. But they are looking for a large change from a flat Reed baseline. They are not really doing fine guaging.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2016-02-29 20:18
Aha, I understand it now. Tip opening can be measured reliably against a flat surface, but the reed-to-tip distance is ever-changing, not a very useful number.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2016-03-01 09:59
Ramon Wodkowski made me a mouthpiece last week. He mentioned that if he had to replace his gauges it would cost him almost $1000. His are custom made for him. I'm assuming there is a good reason he made this kind of investment. He definitely knows what he's doing!
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2016-03-01 18:31
Eastern can make a set to your specs for less money than a machine shop that does not specialize in making Feeler Guages.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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