 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Delber
Date: 2016-02-22 10:42
Hi all
Could I please have so thoughts on Buffet R13 v Yamaha YCL650 clarinets?
Thanks.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-02-22 14:07
My thought is that the YCL 650 is comparable to the Buffet E11.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: jthole
Date: 2016-02-22 15:11
Paul Aviles wrote:
> My thought is that the YCL 650 is comparable to the Buffet E11.
>
That surprises me; I have play tested a YCL 450, and I thought even that clarinet was better than the E11. I'm just comparing one specimen of each, of course, and I never tried a 650.
I tested them when we were looking for a clarinet for my wife two years back.
Edit: we settled on a pre-owned Buffet E13. Much better than the E11, and I liked the timbre more than the Yamaha.
Post Edited (2016-02-22 17:05)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2016-02-22 15:55
The 650 is, IMHO, better than an E11. A good R13 is better than a 650 -- a bad R13 is always worth passing over.
Price range is completely different, obviously!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-02-22 16:04
In terms of where the Yamaha 650 and the Buffet E11 sit in their respective makers hierarchy, the 650 and the E11 could be said to be equivalents, although not equals. They are both intended to be intermediate-level instruments and both makers have levels above these instruments where professional instruments may be found. In practical terms, the Yamaha 650 is what Buffet wishes the E11 was.
Tony F.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-02-22 17:14
The new Yamaha CSVR might be more comparable to a Buffet R13. I suggest you try a CSVR alongside an R13 and a 650 to decide.
Post Edited (2016-02-22 17:15)
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-02-22 18:03
I agree with what has been said so far. I used to play a 650 in middle school and through part of high school, but now I play a set of R13 Prestiges. The 650 is a very good intermediate instrument, but doesn't quite compare to a good R13 or Prestige.
Post Edited (2016-02-22 19:01)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-02-22 18:34
To expand on this a little more, the Buffet R13 has at time or another been used by professional clarinetists in virtually every American orchestra. It is true today that the Backun, BuffetTosca, Selmer Signature and Privlege, and Yamaha CSG are achieving prominence in many American orchestras, but you just won't see many Yamaha 650s there. The take away lesson from this is that, if you want to play in an orchestra--whether a good student orchestra or a pro one--the Buffet R13, with its darker, more subtle sound, is a better choice than the Yamaha 650. As Max says, the 650 is really a good intermediate clarinet (great for school bands). You could certainly use a 650 in a school orchestra, but a good R13 would make a still better fit.
The only Yamaha below the CSG and SEV price range that might be a contender for orchestral work would be the CSVR. Don't know yet if it projects in a large concert hall as well as a good R13. Anybody have any experience with that?
Post Edited (2016-02-22 18:37)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-02-22 19:07
AFAIK in terms of marketing, the Yamaha 650 is supposedly equivalent to the Buffet E13. Both are pretty good. I haven't seen a recent E11... what is it like now? Is it about the same as the E12F? Because both the E13 and the 650 are significantly better than the E12F.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2016-02-22 19:07
After play-testing both the R13 and YCL-650, and spending considerable time in ensemble alongside players of both instruments, I'd say this: The timbre of the 650 is evocative of the R13s that have bright and lively voicing, and are a great alternative for those seeking these timbral qualities. For dark and subtly nuanced voicing, go and seek out an R13.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-22 19:13
In terms of hierarchy, I compare Buffet and Yamaha clarinets like this:
Buffet - Yamaha
B12 - YCL-255
E11 - YCL-450
E13/C12 - YCL-650
R13/RC - YCL-CXII
The 650 is definitely in a league above the E11 as the E11 is an entry level wooden clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-02-23 07:33
I love the Yamaha 650, but then i haven't played an R13. There is also a large price difference. So I guess it depends what you are using it for.
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Author: Geronimo
Date: 2016-02-23 23:29
My 2ยข would be to consider the cause for purchase. My experience with Yamaha is that they are very consistent and built to be in tune (try saying that about buffet). Yamaha horns have come a long way and as a previous comment mentions, an R13 is in the same price bracket as the CSVR. Unless you have the opportunity to try many R13s to find "the one" a safer (not inferior, just safer) bet would be Yamaha.
However I was surrounded by the buffet mindset growing up and as a result play on them. The big advantage being sound color and ergonomic design. "Dark" and "Light" are too subjective to say one maker/model is this or that over another. Something else to consider would be what the R13 is now, as opposed to what it used to be. The golden age of the R13 was in 50/60s and since then they have revealed new top tier clarinets. As a result R&D and the best technicians are assigned to these models and as a result, the standard R13 has become less prestine. (Inconsistent, not the best factory setup etc)
As a disclaimer these are things I've heard my colleagues/professors/technicians discuss and you are free to agree/disagree. All in all please seriously consider Yamaha on par with the other big names makers, but if at the end of the day you want an R13, got for it.
Hope this helped.
-GM
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Author: gwie
Date: 2016-02-24 00:58
Hey GM, I had the same experience growing up too. While I played a Selmer intermediate wood clarinet all through school, everyone around me had a Buffet R-13 and it was pretty much the only clarinet pushed by everyone including the teachers, fellow students, and the local music store.
While I eventually acquired a set of R-13's, and had them overhauled by the Brannens, I went out on a limb and tried out the Yamaha CSG thanks to my initial experience with them at ClarinetFest Vancouver 2007. Both my CSG's had an overhaul recently with Wolfgang Lohff and they are awesome, I'm still playing on them to this day.
I did purchase a set of CSVR's recently as well, as I was really impressed with them at the previous NAMM (they were released in March/May 2015). To me, they sound and respond like R-13's but with much better intonation, and they come in silver-plate by default, at nearly a thousand dollars less (street price). A few of my students have demoed them head-to-head at local shops against Buffet, Leblanc, and Selmer, and we are all really impressed at the "bang for the buck" that this recent Yamaha model provides.
I do have one kid who has a YCL-650 who didn't want to break the bank on a new instrument. We paired with a grenadilla Backun MoBa barrel, and it is just wonderful, and was under 2k.
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Author: moma4faith
Date: 2016-02-24 01:37
If I, personally, were choosing an instrument between those two, I would try to find a nice R13. A used, nice R13 will be a better instrument than a 650. I like Yamaha instruments, but find them to lean toward the stuffy side. This can be a real problem for student players, not so much for seasoned performers who like the resistance that can exist in the Yamahas.
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Author: TAS
Date: 2016-02-24 10:18
A hand picked Buffet R-13 = Mercedes
A Yamaha = Buick
TAS
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Author: tommo84
Date: 2016-02-24 11:40
Just to remind you that with the price of a new R13 you can buy a Yamaha top of the line CSG or CSV,CSVRA etc etc.....
so if R13= Mercedes, then Yamaha CSG= Aston Martin. at the same price.
think about it.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2016-02-25 06:33
I like that the phrase "a good R13" or a "nice R13" -- if you've trialed enough new/used Buffet's, these aren't the average instrument that falls in your lap.
Yes. A good R13 will be better than a 650. Definitely!
The average 650 is closer to a top 1% 650 than the average R13 is to the top 1% R13.
Presuming price is a big factor:
If you're comparing a new 650 to a used R13 (comparable prices -- if that!) you may find a gem of an R13...but you most likely won't. The 650 is most likely the better buy.
If you can spend for a new R13, trial it against a new CSGII/CSVR, and pick what's best for you.
If playing characteristic is a big factor:
They're completely different instruments.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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