 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2016-02-23 03:10
I read and article that her french horn wore out (Lisa's Clarinet Shop(facebook))
Do clarinets wear out?
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“My horn died recently. The metal wore too thin and it lost its resonance. I feel like a widow. The best horns are handmade, and each one is a little different. I’d been playing it for twenty years. It was with me through my graduate degrees, my first job, all my major competitions, and when I finally got my dream job at the opera. I knew all its deficiencies. I could do so many things with it. I haven’t been able to replace it yet. I’ve had this new horn for seven months. There was an immediate attraction, but the more I play, the more I worry. The mouthpiece doesn’t quite seem to fit. But even if this relationship doesn’t work out, I’m sure there will be another. Hope springs eternal.”
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fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-02-23 03:37
Controversial topic. Some players insist clarinets are "blown out" after as few as five years of heavy playing. The clarinet's tone is said to lose its color and the response becomes less precise and quick. Others find the idea silly and point to instruments they have owned and played for decades as proof. All you need do, in their view, is keep the instrument well-maintained, including watching for changes in bore dimensions and tone holes as well as mechanism precision. (See as a subtopic: whether or not to regularly oil the bore of a clarinet.)
Obviously, a clarinet that isn't maintained - leaks, has badly fitting keywork with lots of lost motion in the movement, has a buildup of crud inside, has torn or badly fitting corks, etc. - can be described as "worn out." At some point it can become cost-ineffective to fix it.
Of course, a seller of new clarinets has an axe to grind and can be expected to support "blow out" as an inevitable consequence of use. Look up "blow out" in the search - include this BB and the Klarinet mailing list. You'll find more opinions than you can imagine.
In the end, you still won't know the answer to your question. But it's interesting reading.
Karl
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-02-23 04:04
Wooden clarinets can change, for sure. Usually, the bore changes and the tone holes chip and the grain washes out. Some of this can be fixed by reaming the bore (if it has swollen) and sealing and re-leveling the tone holes. The keys wear as well, but most of the loose play can be fixed by adjustments and swedging the hinge tubing.
Some people think the wood changes chemical characteristics due to the constant bombardment with moisture and saliva ... and a few shops have a special restorative bath to fix this.
With good care, a wooden clarinet can have a very long useful life for many, but some professionals have stated that 5-7 years is about the life span for peak performance.
Tom
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-23 04:06
Unless a clarinet has suffered serious damage through accident, purpose or neglect and is beyond salvage or restoration, then and only then should it become a donor instrument.
If you have the money to spend on a full restoration of an older clarinet that you want to give a new lease of life to, then why not? Chances are it'll still cost less than a brand new equivalent model if it has sentimental or historical value and also plays well in tune.
But even clarinets that have keywork that has become rattly can be sorted out by fitting new oversize screws or bushing the ends of long key rods to make point screws a better fit. Damaged toneholes can have the cracks and chips filled in or bushed if the damage is bad and recut, cracked joints and sockets can be pinned or carbon fibre banded to give them strength, dull bores can be polished, broken tenons can be repaired or replaced, missing or broken keywork can be rebuilt ...
So the possibilities are endless as to what can be done to give an otherwise unloved clarinet many more decades of playing to come.
The problem with brass instruments is when the valves and valve casings wear out and only so much plating the valves (and honing them to make them perfectly cylindrical in the case of piston valves) or sleeving valve casings can be done and the stress can cause metal fatigue over time.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-02-23 04:33
Yes, The resistance slowly changes over time depending on how much it's played. Players adjust to their clarinets and don't notice it happening. It doesn't make the clarinet unusable. Most of my professional customers have newer clarinets.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-23 05:00
The majority of the time, players only notice their clarinets have got bad when they've had them serviced and the toneholes have been cleaned out. More noticeable in the top joint notes due to the small diameters of the toneholes relative to the bore diameter which are affected far more than the larger lower joint toneholes if they're occluded with a load of matted fibres, grease, dirt, dust, dead skin cells, mineral deposits and other stuff which seriously compromises the tone quality. So regular servicing will address this instead of leaving things to carry on and wonder why it plays stuffy compared to a new instrument of the same or similar quality.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-02-23 06:14
In another post recently I mentioned having refurbished a pair of Leblanc LL's for a friend some years back. He was a professional musician, and I always admired his beautiful tone. When he gave me his LL's to refurbish I was amazed to find them almost unplayable, with leaks all over the place and enough gunk buildup to require a backhoe. He'd played them every evening for years, with no reduction in tone or projection.
When I'd finished working on them they played beautifully, but until he reacquainted himself with how they should be he swore I'd ruined them. He persevered, and after a couple of weeks was back to his old self, but for a while I was genuinely concerned that I actually had ruined them.
Tony F.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-02-23 06:47
Once a year I clean out tone holes on both my R13's. As said above, they accumulate stuff. The stuff does "cover" tones and, because accumulation is typically greater toward the "north" of the holes, it lowers pitches.
In line with other reports, it takes me a couple playing sessions after this cleaning to get "back to normal" with the instruments. The difference in playing after cleaning is annoying but one adjusts soon enough.
I did some estimates & calcs. I've probably put over 6000 hours on my Bb, and over 4000 on my A. They haven't needed a lot of maintenance - pads, springs, bore oil, occasional cleaning. I got them used from my teacher after high school, who had got them new and played them himself until he wanted something better. In my opinion I currently sound better with them than any time in the past, but I have nothing to back that up with.
(Gee, I've passed the 10000 hour thing. I knew that was a crock.)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-02-23 09:39
In my closet is a 1912 Buffet Bb clarinet and a 1921 Buffet A clarinet, both full Boehm and six ring. They play very well and sound good with fine key plating and shiny interiors. They belonged to a Hollywood Bowl player and I played them for many years.
I also have a 1956 double horn made by F. E. Olds with Marston valves which plays pretty good, bought at a low cost.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2016-02-23 17:43
Probably depends on the clarinets, and especially the characteristics of the wood used. But in the '70s, I studied with Eduard Brunner, then principal with the Symphony Orchestra of the Bavarian Radio, who was playing Buffets from, at the latest, the '50s. They didn't hold him back any.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-02-23 19:06
If in fact the bores of clarinets change dimensionally over time, then it seems to me just as likely that the playing qualities of the instrument could change for the better as to degrade. I personally don't subscribe to the "blowout" theory, and all the clarinets I play (in nearly every size) are in the 40-90 year old age range. I concur with Chris P that whatever deterioration in playing qualities may have occurred in older clarinets can be fixed by tonehole cleanup, proper venting, good new pads, and a meticulous mechanical overhaul to remove slop and poor key alignment.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2016-02-23 19:24
I was lucky enough to buy Clark Fobes' old A Yamaha from Muncy Winds years ago. I assume Clark bought a new A because his old Yamaha had seen better days. But for me, who rarely uses my A, the horn is magnificent. Best A I've ever played. It's kinda like my Prestige Bb...the horns are better than the player will ever manage.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-23 21:54
The newest soprano clarinet I play is a 1978 Selmer Series 9 paired with a 1962 Series 9 Bb. The first set of pro clarinets I bought as a teenager is a 1950 Selmer BT Bb and a 1951 CT A.
I've only bought a few clarinets from new - the only ones I have from new now are my bass and basset horn (Buffet Prestige). All others have been bought off eBay and restored.
I don't know what it is about older clarinets, but while new clarinets are good, they don't seem to me to have that character of the older ones. What lets a lot of new clarinets down is the shoddy workmanship.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-02-23 23:37
What lets ALL new clarinets down is the retail price. For the cost of one new Buffet (for example) you can purchase approximately 20 good used clarinets, the older the better (up to a point), and have your five favorites restored to like-new condition.
Keep the best two of the five, and sell the other three, to recoup most of your outlay. These top-two clarinets will probably play better than the majority of new instruments. Donate the lower 15 to charity.
Think I'm being frivolous? I'm not.
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Author: moma4faith
Date: 2016-02-24 02:31
My 40 year old R13 was reamed out by Mr. Backun at a symposium. He looked at my instrument, said it was very nice (he's a nice guy) and then said the bore needed to be reamed to get it back to the correct size. He took the tool, placed it in the upper and lower joint, and did a few turns, did some measurements. Little wood dust from my instrument was on the table.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-24 02:31
I'm a bit annoyed at a local player who's not doing himself any favours by having a complete incompetent do half-arsed work on his 1010s as he says I'm too expensive for him, but he's spent far more by having this supposed repairer overhaul his clarinets several times over and they're still not right as he's never addressed the issues with them. He's just bunging in new pads and not seating them properly, not rectifying tonehole problems, wrong spring tensions, poor ventings, etc. so really not making any significant improvements at all and probably exacerbating things. I prefer to strip any old clarinet right down to its individual pieces and then rebuild it from the ground up, taking into account any problems I find once it's all in bits and addressing them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2016-02-24 04:33
1010 need alot of work to begin with so wondering what the deal is there..they are fickle fannies at best and for an amateur a bit of a bees nest. I think the r13 s from the early 80s were odd ducks..some played sensationally and I had a set I played into the ground literally. I use CSG yamahas and they are seven years old and feel as resitant as the day I got them.
So..the question..do clarinets wear out..well if you beat it death and never clean it sure. But a cared for clarinet even by an orchestral player should last a good 20 years and then some.
I disagree with this assertion. Many a Series 9 play just fine with a fine overhaul and refurbishment.
David Dow
Post Edited (2016-02-24 04:35)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-24 04:44
As I said in a recent topic, I've never had a dud when it comes to older Selmers - they have a lot of fight left in them!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2016-02-24 17:44
I'm an amateur, but fwiw.... As I go cockroaching around at the flea markets, junktiques stores, yard sales and auctions, by far the majority of the worn-out clarinets I see are modern wooden instruments with clear evidence of bad maintenance. A lot of these are revoltingly filthy, as if the owners never swabbed them and left the reeds on without ever rinsing out the mouthpieces. In our humid, mid-Atlantic climate, mold, mildew and fungi love a wooden clarinet that's put away dirty and wet. Those case-linings would make a rat vomit.
In contrast, I've bought clarinets that are more than a century old that need corks, pads and some springs, but aren't blown out in the least.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2016-02-24 19:08
Chris & D: can't say anything about being "blown out," but as far as simple aging, 1010s seem to handle it quite well. Got a set in '84, tried to play them for a bit, and then let them sit until early last year, after I sold my Buffets. Now, with a decent mouthpiece, they sound better than I ever did on Buffets, and with all the original pads, hold a vacuum better than the Buffets ever did. The ergonomics do probably make them somewhat unattractive for most amateurs, but getting that kind of sound and tuning for about £1,000 a set plus an overhaul could make up for a lot. Seems to me the keywork compares favorably with modern instruments. Don't want to try to go back and forth between them and French instruments, though.
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2016-02-24 20:01
dorjepismo wrote:
> far as simple aging, 1010s seem to handle it quite well. Got a
> set in '84, tried to play them for a bit, and then let them sit
> until early last year, after I sold my Buffets. Now, with a
> decent mouthpiece, they sound better than I ever did on
> Buffets,
I too have a pair of 1010s that sound as fresh as a new clarinet.
BTW, what is your 'decent mouthpiece' on the 1010?. I am still strugling to find a piece that sounds good but is not too resistant.
On topic: I believe some clarinets can be blown out, like hobos:
Sounding dull, lacking overtones, loosing 'crispness' in the sound and articulation. I've found some Buffet RC Prestiges, and RCs that I would consider that way.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2016-02-24 20:09
I'm playing a Pillinger "TT" (for "1010"). I started out with a Peter Eaton, but made the mistake of asking him for one faced like the one he made for my Buffets, which I really liked. I just asked Ed for something that a lot of 1010 players like, and after some back and forth, he sent the TT. He asked about resistance, and I said to err on the side of "free blowing." Probably the best mouthpiece I've had, including ones for French and German instruments.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-02-24 21:38
Well, if you're positive your clarinet is worn out and not restorable, perhaps that would excuse having it buried with you. Hey- NOW I know what that $35 clarinet I recently posted about is good for.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2016-02-24 21:39)
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