 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kj2008
Date: 2016-02-19 19:48
IS E12F good enough for an amateur (forever) who is progressing from a beginner (with plastic B12) level to an intermediate level? Some suggested to go all the way to R13 so that I do not need to upgrade again down the road. However, R13 is more than twice expensive than E12F and I wonder it might be an overkill for the purpose of my use/need. And, is E13 something to consider for money wise (I heard it very similar to the R13)? I rather want to stay on the course of purchasing a new one.
Any opinions?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-19 20:28
An E13 is a better instrument if you want an entry level clarinet made by Buffet and plays like a pro level clarinet.
Although you say you would want to stay on the course of buying a new clarinet, do check out used R13s as there are many good ones around that can be bought for the same price or even less than a new student model.
The E12F is a huge improvement over the E11F as it has better shaped tonehole countersinks (with rounded edges to the crowns instead of being razor sharp that can cut through pads) and leather pads as well as threaded pillars. But as they're built to keep the cost down, they cut corners on the construction by using a thin gauge brass plate instead of sunken threaded pillars (or a much thicker gauge metal block) for the LH levers which means anyone a bit heavy-handed tightening up the screws could very easily strip the threads.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2016-02-19 22:12
An E12F would be an excellent choice.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-02-22 08:11
Alternatively the B12 with a better mouthpiece?There are lots of nice options in the intermediate range. I have an E11, although I am not very happy with it. Other options I think you should consider (based on reviews) are hanson clarinets, ridenour clarinets, and the yamaha 450. Play them and see how they all compare. Of that list I have played the yamahas and thought they sounded beautiful. Definitely nicer than my E-11.
I think that Buffets may have a bit of a mark up on them because they are 'buffet'..
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2016-02-22 09:10
For around US$1850, about what an E12F retails for, one can buy the fully professional Yamaha YCL-650.
Honestly, why fart around with intermediate instruments when a 650 could delight you for the rest of your life?
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-02-22 09:27
"Alternatively the B12 with a better mouthpiece?"
I'd avoid the B12 like the plague. Of all the common student-level instruments it's probably the worst. Its intonation is poor, as is the build quality. The E12F and Yamaha 650 are both infinitely better choices. Personally I find little real difference in performance between the Yamaha 650 and the lower-priced 450, both are fine instruments.
Tony F.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-02-22 10:45
The E12F is really not bad but IMO it's overpriced for what it is. Especially its build quality is not so good. It plays fine. Although it's more expensive I would recommend the E13 instead if you don't mind paying for it. I'd also prefer a Yamaha 450 or 650, which are both good.
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Author: kj2008
Date: 2016-02-22 23:21
Thanks for all of good opinions and they are very helpful.
Some notes to:
Sarah C - Yes, early on, I upgraded the mouthpiece with Vandoren M13 Lyre (per Michelle Anderson's great recommendation) and found that it made a huge improvement and I am very happy with this mouthpiece.
Tony F - At least for me, you bad experience with B12 didn't happen to my B12. I learn and exercise all pieces with having tuner on all the time. I don't see any problem with individual tone (during long tone exercise) and intonation (while playing scales).
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-02-22 23:55
According to Buffet's own website, the E12F is sort of a hybrid, Body from Buffet Paris, keywork from their German plant. Leather Pads sounds interesting, too. They call it a "Performance" instrument, with all the other less expensive clarinets being deemed "Student" models. I'd be interested in how this choice goes for you!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: kj2008
Date: 2016-02-23 00:39
To Clarinibass,
Your comment caught my attention on the subject.
I am currently weighing on which intermediate one I will choose for my next equipment.
Have you tried both E12F and E13? I wonder whether it's worth to spend extra $800 for E13 over E12F. Can you tell me the difference between two in detail as much as you could?
In earlier post, someone suggest of going all the way to R13 by paying $500 more (list price difference). However, for E13, there's a discount available, but for R13 no discount allowed by the manufacturer. So, actually, there's about $1K or more difference between E13 and R13.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-23 02:40
The E13 is a much better instrument over the E11, E11F and E12F as its Buffet's entry level clarinet/high end student/interediate model made by Buffet and plays more like a pro level clarinet compared to the other Buffets that aren't made in-house. The C12 is the next model up from the E13 (but often gets overlooked), then the R13 and RC are the Buffet's entry level pro models.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-02-23 09:33
>> Have you tried both E12F and E13? I wonder whether it's worth to spend extra $800 for E13 over E12F. Can you tell me the difference between two in detail as much as you could? <<
I've tried more than a few of each model. IMO the E13 is just better in every objective way and I would definitely go with it instead of an E12F. IMO it's also better in the two subjective ways - tone and comfort of the key layout, but that's different for anyone who tries them.
In short, in addition to the E13 (IMO) having a more even tone across the range, better build quality, better tone, etc. the E12F has some very bad mechanical design and build quality issues. They are inconsistent in QC and each that I saw had at least some problems when new. There is one particular mechanical issue that is tricky to explain but I could show it in a minute. It's partly to do with what Chris wrote but there's more to it than that. The last two I've seen had binding left pinkie levers because of this. This is considering its price, which is expensive for what it is.
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Author: kj2008
Date: 2016-02-23 18:32
I appreciate good opinions/input from all who took the time to respond to my inquiry on the subject, and thanks a lot to Chris P and clarnibass in particular for more detailed insight.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-02-24 02:43
What I prefer on the E12F over any French made Buffet is the fact they use leather pads and they have more pad friendly toneholes - but there are a lot of corners cut to make an instrument at an affordable price. Maybe in time the E12F will address certain issues - they're made in Germany, so should in theory have the best build quality of any European maker!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-02-24 17:29
"This horn is junk for the most part.
TAS"
That's a very sweeping statement, would you care to elucidate? My experience of the E12F is that it is an improvement on previous instruments aimed at the same market. I can think of instruments that I would classify as junk, but the E12F isn't such. Admittedly it's built to a price and it's certainly not an R13, but it fills a need.
Tony F.
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