 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-12-01 03:58
Hi
Yesterday I had my first rehearsal with the group of two bass clarinets. I had my Buffet low C, and the other had a Selmer model 35 if I'm not mistaken. My Buffet has the more curved neck, and his Selmer had the more sax-like angled neck.
I remember about a year ago I had the chance to try a Selmer 37 and the clarion E to B (the ones that use the second register hole) were really easy to play. On my Buffet, and on every other Buffet bass I've played (a total of about ten) those notes were slightly hard. What I mean is, that if I play for example low A (two lines below the staff) legato to E (below the top line of the staff), which is simply pressing the register key, then there is a really short 'pfff' (air sound) between them. I have to do a gentle tounge touch to do it. With the Selmer I've tried a year ago I didn't have that problem, so I thought Selmers have better clarion notes (still preferred the Buffet becuase of other reasons).
A few weeks ago when I was in the bass clarinet convention I've tried a few of the new Selmer Previlege, which has the more angled neck, like the Buffets. All of them had the exact same problem as the Buffets, with the air sound between the registers in the higher clarion notes.
So yesterday I played on my friend's Selmer 35 and again these notes came out without a problem.
So now my guess is it's because of the neck, since that's the only difference I can think of between all bass clarinets that had the problem and the ones that didn't.
If that is actually the case, does anyone know if it is possible to get a less angled neck for the Buffet bass?
Thanks.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2005-12-01 11:14
The angled neck of the bass clarinets you describe usually helps alleviate the problem you are experiencing. The bass mouthpiece should enter the mouth at about the same angle that a soprano mouthpiece does.
You may have to look at some other aspects of your playing to solve this problem. "Popping up" into the clarion register from the chalumea is as easy as touching open the register key.
Good luck solving the problem!
James Tobin
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-12-01 11:32
I see what you're getting at. I have been doing some angle changing on the soprano to alleviate lip fatigue, and have some adjustment issues there. Since I have only used the Selmer bass I can only assume that there would be similar issues of response due to the direction of the air column (more "direct" on the Selmer, more "across the reed" on the Buffet).
I would suggest toying with the positions of the tongue to help direct the air in a manner that may better suit the Buffet angle. When I get my hands on one I'll give that a whirl.
.............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-12-01 11:47
"You may have to look at some other aspects of your playing to solve this problem."
I would think so too except for the experience I described in my post. Although the angle of the neck compared with the clarinet is different between the Selmer and Buffet, my mouth and the mouthpiece were exactly the same when I played both. As I said I didn't have the problem at all with all Selmer 35 and 37 models I've tried (now that I remember there were three of them total) but did with all Buffets and the new Selmer Previlege I've tried.
I hope it was also clear that this happens only with the second register from E and above. For example when playing low A to clarion E or D4 to A5. Playing low E to clarion B and the same until low Ab to clarion Eb doesn't have this problem.
By the way, two other clarinet players felt the exact same thing after playing both my Buffet bass and the Selmer bass (although both preferred my Buffet overall even with this little problem).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-01 12:58
http://www.selmer.fr/html/english/claribas/perso/perso.htm
Will these fit Buffet basses? I wouldn't mind the top one with the shallower angle.
(Finally I'm managing to get something posted on here, but only a couple of words at a time)
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-12-01 13:03)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-12-01 13:10
Chris P wrote:
> (Finally I'm managing to get something posted on here, but only
> a couple of words at a time)
Something on your end, not this end.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-12-01 15:34
Hi - J Tobin, you say it well as to mp angle. Playing my Sel 33 between legs, I do some adjusting [10 to 20 degrees off vertical] for better mp angle AND closer L J for rt hand reach. Works for me. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-01 15:44
Disclaimer: I have taken graduate courses in acoustics, and haven't been able to apply much of this information to real wind instrument problems.
On saxophones and bassoons the necks/bocals have a great affect on the instruments' response, intonation and tone color. I imagine that the neck on a bass clarinet will have similar effects.
Think of the changes wrought by a change of tuning barrels (tapers) on a soprano clarinet --and it (must be) is much simpiler than the curved and tapered neck.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-12-01 17:28
Bay's necks are VERY expensive.
Bass necks are like clarinet barrels. They make a big difference, and small changes can transform an instrument from very bad to very good, or vice versa.
I've tried several Bay necks on my Buffet bass. I've liked the steeper angle, but otherwise they don't play as well for me as the original Buffet neck.
David Hattner, who plays bass professionally, has written that he prefers Selmer basses with a "straight in" style neck. http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=101118&t=101004
As always, it's what works for you that counts.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-12-01 19:10
I use part of a very early (1984 or so) Charles Bay bass clarinet neck (the lower portion) in conjunction with my Model 32's upper portion, and the combination works just fine.
The horn is also held at about a 10-15° angle with the bell further away from the vertical, and the combination of all of this is that the bass's mouthpiece enters at just about the same angle as does the conventional soprano mouthpiece beak.
I also "fine tune the position by offsetting the upper portion of the neck to the left, then turning the lower portion to the right while slightly rotating the mouthpiece. This gives a better viewing angle for my right eye (with which I read most music).
Bottom line is that you can do whatever feels comfortable to you, and the Devil take the hindmost as far as anything else.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bass9396
Date: 2005-12-02 23:16
All Bass Clarinets will make the pffff sound to some degree, but we as Bass Clarinetists have to have enough control, the right setup, to work around it. I play a Leblanc 430 and it pfffff's, but I have an ideal setup and when my reed doesn't suck, it's no big.
Were I you I would work on control, sensitivity, and flexibility in my embouchure....see if you can make the problem go away on your own. Then you'll be able to do more than when you started. If you change equipment now, you'll never know what you could learn here.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-02 23:32
I just want a crook that has a better angle for me, not as steep as the one that is standard with a Buffet Prestige bass - all in the cause for playing comfort.
If the angle was shallower (ie. the mouthpiece more parallel to the floor than it is now, but NOT parallel WITH the floor) I'd find that a huge plus.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-12-03 00:17
The great bass clarinetist Josef Horak (who recently died) showed me his method. He sat far forward in his chair and tucked his right heel next to the right front chair leg. He then set the floor peg of his Selmer low-C bass in the angle between the chair leg and his foot, leaning the instrument slightly forward and to the left. This tilted the mouthpiece up to give him the playing angle he preferred.
The nice thing about doing it this way is that you don't have to get a new neck. It took me a while to get used to it, though. I was initially too enthusiastic and my left arm hurt from supporting the instrument. After a while, I learned to tilt more to the side and less forward.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-12-03 05:11
"All Bass Clarinets will make the pffff sound to some degree"
"Were I you I would work on control, sensitivity, and flexibility in my embouchure"
Those Selmer 35s and 37s, that I tried only for a few minutes without practicing them at all didn't have the 'pfff' sound at all, not even a little. I also thought all bass clarinets will have it until I've tried those.
You can check by playing G below the staff and pressing the register to play D, then play A below the staff and press the register to play E, all in legato. On my Buffet those two legatos feel very different, on those Selmer 35s and 37s they feel exactly the same. On the new Selmer Privilege they feel different like on my Buffet.
I'll try to get the Selmer from my friend to my house so I can record both and you'll hear the problem.
"The great bass clarinetist Josef Horak (who recently died)"
I just saw him play about a month ago. We could see he was in bad health and was struggling to play but still sounded great.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2005-12-03 05:35
clarnibass...... I have such a neck piece, it was made by Morrie Backun about a year ago. When I purchased a used 1994 Buffet Prestige to low C I found it ergonomically impossible for me to play. The new neck did the trick, reduced the mouthpiece angle and raised the horn. Morrie has made a number of these neck pieces. Although I can tell no intonation difference I know at least one person who says the new neck piece improves the horn.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-03 12:02
How much do you reckon the end pieces (the bit with the socket) are? If these could be supplied at a better, shallower angle (thus bringing the bass in towards me and raising the whole instrument off the floor more) then I think this'll do the job instead of holding the whole instrument angled with the bell forward.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-12-03 12:59
An interesting and enlightening discussion, Without knowledge, I had adopted Horak's rt foot location, which made rt hand access easier. Also TKS, Terry S, re: the "vision/interference" problem. I "see" with my left eye ?best?, and will experiment with my Sel's tuning neck angles [without mal-adjusting the neck's reg. key [Critical] setting] to improve my viewing of the music. Any more good hints?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bass9396
Date: 2005-12-03 13:24
I love Horak's playing...it's a shame he's gone. Considering his seated position I'm interested to see people using it because they got it from him. That is encouraging. I've been playing that way since I was 15, and I didn't know who Josef Horak was back then. Even though this discussion is not about seated position, please encourage every Bass Clarinetist you see to sit THAT way. It's by far the most efficient way to hold and play the instrument.
Also, if the new Selmer;s don't pffff, great. I still think there are other aspects of your playing (as someone else mentioned) you may want to address anyways. If only for funsies.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-03 13:30
Problem with any low C bass is that you're at the mercy of the chairs in the performance/rehearsal hall as most of them are too low and cushions are never availlable to give you more height, and stacking chairs to get more height can be dangerous as they wobble.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2005-12-03 13:43
Attachment: buffetneck.jpg (83k)
I had two options when I was thinking about modifying the neck piece. One was to have a whole new piece made (the option I chose) or to have the existing piece modified (at about 1/3 the price). I was afraid that modifying the neck piece might seriously reduce the horns resale value so had a new piece made out of copper and brass.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-03 13:56
That looks pretty swish in copper.
I could always make one myself (the end piece only) - I think I can get the right diameter nickel silver tubing, but it's a case of putting a decent bend in it, and without the tubing going oval.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-12-03 14:24
"Also, if the new Selmer;s don't pffff, great. I still think there are other aspects of your playing (as someone else mentioned) you may want to address anyways."
This makes me think maybe I didn't explain myself clearly. The new Buffets, Selmers, and any bass clarinet with more clarinet-like angled neck I've played (more than ten) had the 'pfff' sound from clarion E and up. All bass clarinets I've played that had the more sax-like, more parallel to the floor angled neck (I've tried three of them), didn't have the 'pfff' sound at all.
Unfortuntely I like the sound and keywork of the Buffets a lot but don't like the sound and especially the keywork of the Selmers at all.
Bill, how much did the new neck cost? If I understand correct, the new piece is just the half of the neck, and the silver part is from the stock neck?
I might be in Paris next year so I'll probably go to Buffet and ask them about it, and maybe they can do something about it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2005-12-03 15:26
Clarnibass......You should send Morrie Backun and email and ask him for a quote as he is the person who made it for me. morrie@backunmusical.com
Yes, the top silver part is the stock Buffet piece. By the way my neck piece gives the mouthpiece an approximately 35 degree angle, the stock Buffet piece is over 50 degrees. That angle could have been further reduced to about 20 degrees. When I first bought the horn I had to set the bell on the floor to play it and there was considerable discomfort to my right wrist. This new piece raises the horn about 3" off the floor and means my right wrist stays at a reasonable angle.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2005-12-03 15:38
Hello, I have a question for clarifications sake (my own).
Is the "pfff" sound many are describing the subtone that precedes ascending into the clarion register?
James Tobin
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2005-12-05 11:37
Doesn't the Privilege/67 come with two necks, at different angles? Seems like that would make it pretty easy to test out your theory and easy to correct the problem if it is indeed a neck issue.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-12-05 11:57
Tobin, I'm sorry but I don't understand your question. Maybe someone else will.
Igloo Bob, The Privilege doesn't come with two necks, it only comes with the more angled neck, like the Buffet bass clarinet. I think you can special order the other neck like the older models have though.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2005-12-05 15:48
bass 9396:
"All Bass Clarinets will make the pffff sound to some degree, but we as Bass Clarinetists have to have enough control, the right setup, to work around it. I play a Leblanc 430 and it pfffff's, but I have an ideal setup and when my reed doesn't suck, it's no big."
clarnibass:
"What I mean is, that if I play for example low A (two lines below the staff) legato to E (below the top line of the staff), which is simply pressing the register key, then there is a really short 'pfff' (air sound) between them."
Angling the bass clarinet away from you as described above (increasing the angle on the mouthpiece) on top of the angled neck eliminates this problem for me. I honestly don't recall it ever being an issue.
Now of course not everything works for everyone (we're all built differently), but I wondering if clarnibass has explored the two together to her advantage?
James Tobin
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clairannette
Date: 2005-12-06 21:31
bass9396:
"Even though this discussion is not about seated position, please encourage every Bass Clarinetist you see to sit THAT way. It's by far the most efficient way to hold and play the instrument."
I don't think you should make such a sweeping statement about the position of the bass clarinet- everyone is different, just because you play that way doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. I have a Buffet low C bass and I play it pretty much completely perpendicular to the ground and I have had no problems with technique, sound, etc. I find it much more efficient and ergonomic for me to play this way- my wrists are weak, and this position doesn't hurt them at all. Everyone has their own preference as to which angle works best for them!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-12-07 05:28
Clairannette, can you email me please to clarnibass@yahoo.com and maybe you could check something on your bass for me please?
Thanks.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-18 15:38
Hi All,
I'd like to elevate this thread which is well over a decade old. I believe that bass clarinet neck angle development has taken a couple of significant steps since the original discussion above; I'm interested in seeing the progression.
Of particular interest to me is the availability of after-market bass necks. I have an older Selmer Model 30 which is a slightly angled neck but I tend to use a peg as well as a harness so I can move the bass to a more forward angle which achieves more of an upward angle of the beak into my mouth. I'd love to find a more angled after-market neck at a reasonable price.
Be sure to look at the picture posted by Bill 28099 of the upper neck extension he had made. Chris P, is it possible to do that work these days?
HRL
PS I love seeing old friend Don Berger's posts. We miss you Don.
Post Edited (2016-02-18 15:49)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-02-18 17:37
Trying two different necks on the same bass clarinet would be the best test of this theory.
Steve Ocone
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-18 18:40
Steve,
Interesting thought but on my Selmer Model 30, the register vent key mechanism is a bit different than on newer necks. The extension that extends below the neck is on the right hand side (looking from the MP).
I do look forward to Chris P. and Clarnibass to add their updates.
HRL
PS My issue is not that the clarion does not speak quickly but rather how to get a more upward angled MP.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CEC
Date: 2016-02-19 01:43
Hi Hank,
If you're looking for a more affordable aftermarket neck, check out:
http://www.gloger-handkraft.com/bklarinet.htm
Much less expensive than Blashaus and also very well regarded.
Gloger does have a reputation for being a bit slow on delivery, though.
Cheers!
Chris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-02-19 02:02
Dr. Hank,
If you want your neck re-angled, send it to me and I'll do it for a paella dinner the next time you're in DC.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-19 02:27
Chris,
Interesting stuff, thanks.
DS,
Nothing would make me happier than to have a paella dinner with you once again. However, my getting DC for the pickup and the payoff is the real issue.
But I will keep your gracious offer in mind.
Best regards to you both,
HRL
Post Edited (2016-02-19 04:14)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2016-02-19 08:22
Hank, Morrie Backun made that neck for me years ago. He could have modified the old neck but I was worried that it might reduce the resale value of the horn. The modification was made because ergonomically it was difficult for my damaged wrist to reach the lower keys with a steep neck angle. This was for an older Buffet Prestige which has all the vents on the body and none on the bell.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-19 15:03
Hi Bill28099,
Thanks for that info. It was beautiful work.
Please send me an email and we can discuss a few of the details privately. My address is with my profile.
Regards,
HRL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-02-19 23:30
Hank, I didn't re-read my posts and this thread, but I read the first post again.
That first post is from so long ago, before I really looked that much into it, before I learned acoustics in university, before I had any idea what was causing the problem I had.
I don't remember those Selmer Privilege bass clarinets I mentioned, but many other Selmer Privileges I've tried since then didn't have that problem. I'm not if I just remembered wrong.
I was looking for a solution for a very specific problem. Not a general response issue or any ergonomic issue with the neck angle. The solution turned out to have nothing to do with the neck angle.
I have tried different neck angles on the same model bass clarinet. I'm not sure if this helps you at all. It's just a matter of what's more comfortable to you. I think I would like an angle maybe between the Selmer 37 and the Buffet Prestige (a bit closer to the latter), but not enough to go to the trouble of changing it. It's really a non-issue for me.
Someone posted a link to the thread explaining what I eventually found about the problem I had and the solution/improvement.
As far as a new angle, there are a few people who can probably make a new neck for you. If you have a w-piece neck and you only need the outer part then that's easier (no vent, key, etc.). Gloger and Backun for example. They might need your actual neck to fit it though, it's a bit risky to go by measurements.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-19 23:50
Clarinibass,
Thanks for the update.
My tech has a very experienced brass repair staff and he is an excellent machinist as well as a repairman. I'm going to ask him the next I'm at the shop about the possibility of making a new final section (yes, I have a two-piece neck). I also have a friend who is a metallurgist who can advise on the properties of various materials.
If these two can't figure it out, I can go the route you suggested above. I do know that the upward angle on the new Buffet is a little too much for me. As a doubler, I may find that by simply moving the floor peg back a little while using a harness as I am doing now may suffice and actually be very close to what I use on tenor sax (~ same size reed, mouthpiece, and angle into my mouthpiece). Interestingly, that is one advantage of using bass that goes down to just Eb.
HRL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oian
Date: 2016-02-20 06:53
This is not related to the main theme of this discussion, but is just a solution I found for a cushion to get high enough to play the low C. When I got a low c after playing my Leblanc Eb I tried a phone book for a while (way too heavy and cumbersome). The solution I found was to use an inexpensive throwable life preserver/cushion. It's light, firm, works well and is just the height I needed to play on a metal folding chair (it adds about 2 1/4"). They can be had for less than $20 at most sporting goods stores. It may not work so well for others but at my height (6') it works great for me, and is a lot more comfortable than a hard metal chair. I also works just as well with my Eb contra alto.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2016-02-21 03:31
One drawback to angling the bass backwards to achieve a more normal clarinet angle is it seems to encourage water to flow out of the throat A key, at least does on my B&H Imperial.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-22 06:23
Norman,
So that's why my hand was getting wet (actually, I'm just kidding). You raise an excellent point.
However, I've not had trouble with that issue yet. But then, I'm not moving to the peg too far back from vertical.
"Solving one problem oft times causes another."
HRL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-02-22 10:07
One advantage to someone who is more or less set up to do it is that it could be significantly less expensive. Doing a one-off might mean a lot of extra work in making the tools, finding and getting the materials, checking accuracy (e.g. size of mandrel compared with size of the result).
Your brass repairer/machinist might be able to do it anyway, but unless they are already set up for it and/or willing to do it as an interesting project, I guess it would probably cost much more (though there are other factors like cost in the area, etc.).
Bass clarinets necks are most often made of nickel silver which is harder to work with than brass or copper. Trumpets are usually brass and much thinner and easier to form and bend. They are usually made by passing through a die and not over a mandrel anyway.
Machining the entire thing is actually possible, but needs some tricks. The rod of nickel silver to allow that is pretty expensive, if possible to find. Worth considering other material anyway.
Just some more info, but if your repairer can do it then great. I'm now even rethinking of getting one too. I can probably make it myself but it would probably have to be absurdly expensive to make that worth it. The problem is I constantly use two necks, one with pickup and one without, so I would really want two of them...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-22 15:29
Clarnibass,
Your comments are very thought provoking. The smart money seems to be saying "nice idea but..." My repairer/machinist might do it as an interesting project but I'd never ask for that kind of accommodation. He gives me great service, does excellent work, and his prices are fair. Why rock the boat?
Too bad there are not a lot of Selmer Model 30 necks for sale. Then I could just have an extra neck which my tech (as well as DS above) says "I can bend it for you..."
I have had some great off-line conversations with another BB member and we have kicked this can down the road quite a bit. I have pretty well come to the conclusion it is an interesting idea but not very practical.
My plan is to have lunch with my tech and get his operational thoughts.
Thanks,
HRL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2016-02-22 18:00
Hank:
I find myself in a similar situation -- I have an older Selmer Paris bass clarinet (1970s vintage -- is that a model 30?) and would like a more angled neck and have been seeking options.
It sounds like you have tried one of the newer Selmer necks (for models 35/37). Based on measurements, it looks like those newer necks should fit in my older bass. But, have you found that the register mechanisms for the older horns have trouble "interfacing" with the key on the newer necks? (I see your comment above about the "right hand side" and understand exactly what you mean).
Sounds like you're ahead of me on the learning curve and just want to understand what you've found.
Thanks in advance for any insight!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-22 19:04
Hi Bradfordlloyd,
I say Model 30 since that was what my tech told me; he has seen a lot of different bass clarinets so I trust his identification.There was 33 on eBay not too long ago that looked exactly like my bass except for a low C. I also have are an articulated C#/G# and a LH Ab/Eb. The serial number on my bass is T46xx.
Yes, looking from the back of the neck, the lever for the register key is on the right. I've seen 35/37s and their down lever is on the left. I have not tried one as the price is pretty high to experiment needlessly. But it looks like it would fit but the register key is still an issue.
I'd like a little more angle upward (not too much).
HRL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2016-02-22 19:44
Thanks Hank!
I shall do some of my own exploring on this issue and report back. I certainly agree that it's an expensive proposition to experiment with this....looking for some solutions here myself.
If the newer Selmer necks won't work on their vintage horns, I will likely be having Gloger custom craft one for me.
Unless the price of a paella dinner applies to others as well
Thanks!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2016-02-22 20:18
Some quick exploration has uncovered the following:
The neck for the 35/37 will also fit the model 33 (i.e., the tenon fits into the body), but the register key is a tad short to reach the lever.
However, I'm told that it would take all of two minutes for a tech to reshape the lever coming up from the body to accommodate the neck.
This is second hand, but comes from a knowledgeable source....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-22 22:55
Bradfordlloyd,
That is an interesting bit of information.
However, I was thinking though of having the lever modified instead since I want to keep the instrument itself as original as possible. If I have a 35/37 neck that is bent a little and also has a lever that works on a model 30/33, that would be an extra that would enhance a future sale or could be sold separately to another 30/33 owner.
But in reality, if I somehow was convinced that I needed a low C Selmer bass for whatever reason, I'd keep the Model 30 (with two necks now) as my backup. My current backup, a tremendous instrument in its own right, would sell quickly.
HRL
PS I wonder if there are others out there that might want to have their 30/33s supercharged with a more angled neck as well. Perhaps we could get bulk price?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: saxlite
Date: 2016-02-22 23:23
I have a 50's era Selmer bass clarinet and would like more vertical mouthpiece angle. Since the neck is actually a two piece assembly ( tuning adjustment ),why couldn't a new more steeply angled mouthpiece section be made- this would avoid dealing with the register key issues. If someone wants offer this, I'd be a buyer.
Jerry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-22 23:29
Attachment: buffetneck.jpg (83k)
Jerry,
That's exactly what is needed and what I think Bill28099 had made for his Buffet. Here is that picture again.
I'd be a buyer as well.
HRL
Post Edited (2016-02-23 01:18)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-02-23 10:01
>> The smart money seems to be saying "nice idea but... <<
I don't know. If it was something I was consistently noticing whenever I was playing then I probably would have a different angle neck by now. It is such a minor issue for me, so minor that I actually forgot about it for the last few years until you revived this thread.
Another reason that I might want a less angled neck is that the current Buffet has a "unique" design where the low Db key is at the back. The peg mount is soldered with some distance and at a slight angle, so it doesn't collide with this key when inserted more. This isn't a problem with the regular peg, but I sometimes use a long peg when standing. Even though the peg is thicker than the normal one, with the comfortable clarinet angle it is a little at an angle from the floor, which puts much more pressure on it as a lever. I haven't had a problem and it doesn't seem like there's any issue, but just another thing to consider.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-23 15:34
Clarnibass,
Reviewing the discussion on this thread (old and new) there seems to be two reasons to modify a neck.
The first is my situation where I want more of an upward angle for the mouthpiece so I don't have to move the peg back a little. That would probably be just on an instrument with a low Eb bass like my older Selmer.
I think what I hear you're saying is that with your low C Buffet, you'd want - for the reasons you mention above - less of an angle, right? On every one of the newer low C basses I have played there is too much angle for me.
There must be some middle ground. Also, I may be over-simplifying the problem when I am stuck with believing that the solution is one of just making a new tubing section for the section of the neck closest to the MP and leaving the neck section with the register key intact. To me, this is not an acoustic problem but just one of plumbing.
But I've been wrong before. However, the Law of Parsimony seems to apply here.
HRL
PS I'm toying with the idea of trying to bend some PVC pipe and using various fittings to see if I can make a neck section. I must have too much time on my hands. But with all the recent discussion on feeler and bore gauges, there seems to be a DIY group here (BTW I've seen some of Dave Spiegelthal's bass clarinet mods which are quite imaginative).
Post Edited (2016-02-23 15:42)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CEC
Date: 2016-02-23 21:50
How's about one of the Chinese-made necks? Maybe worth looking into...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-02-23 22:03
Hi CEC,
I thought about that but again, the lever for the register key is on the back left of the neck and I need it on the right. Also, the final section of the neck would have to be bent up. But that is a long shot possibility.
HRL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JHowell
Date: 2016-02-25 08:51
I bought a Selmer Privilege neck for an old 33. Tried several in Paris. Didn't really work. Adversely affected the throat tone pitch, and the keys weren't quite in the right place for the new angle.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
