 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Agomongo
Date: 2016-02-03 07:45
So it looks like I've discovered something yet again. I've always gotten different opinions of clarinet angles . Hawkins said do what's natural and another teacher wanted me to keep my clarinet at a 20 degree angle. Well I found out that for me around a 30-40 degree angle is good, because I can tongue much cleaner when I do. I use to keep it at a 45 degree angle until now.
I feel the when someone asks, "How close should I hold the clarinet?" I feel like the appropriate response would be, "As close as you can so that: 1. You can tongue faster 2. A more focused tone 3. The sound doesn't get cut off." Of course we should add not so much that the tonguing becomes worse, the sound is cut off, and overall just VERY uncomfortable to play. I also remember Dan Gilbert told me to put as much on the reed as I can without killing it or cutting it off, so to feel a little bit of teeth pressure should be fine; just as long as it's done my the angle and not you.
How do you teach clarinet angle?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-02-03 15:11
I am living a "transition," so I find the topic interesting. As a life-long French/American schooled clarinet player, the angle is best thought of as what aids the embouchure. That had been for me as described on the very first page of Bonade's famous Clarinetists' Compendium: Top teeth further back toward tip than the lower teeth. This stance prevents a "clamping" stance (top vs bottom teeth) and aids in a "fulcrum" for more "active" embouchures.
However............
As I re-approach the "German School" of playing, there is more of a tendency for those players to have the instrument angled out more from the body. The advice I got from Bas de Jong of Viotto mouthpieces, however, is to LISTEN to what sounds best with an open "G." This works well as a cooperative effort with your instructor too I might add.
It is worth noting that the embouchure plays a significantly less active role in the traditional German approach to playing.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-02-03 15:19
I haven't read much on the angle yet, but i have noticed that changing the angle does change the ease for me to articulate well. It also changes the tone produced by the clarinet. Which for me seems to be best at the 20 degree or so... I am wondering whether with time i will be able to play beautifully at any angle!
But then my recorder experience tells me that that is a bad position for the thumb to be in. As the weight of the clarinet rests on the thumb, where as when the recorder is higher, the recorder can balance on the thumb, rather than be carried by the thumb. Not sure if that is making sense.
I do get a sore thumb when playing the clarinet, and resort to a naughty technique that i have used when playing heavy recorders... balancing the very end of the bell on something, to relieve the weight on the thumb!
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-02-03 17:58
Agomongo wrote:
> How do you teach clarinet angle?
If you're talking about a beginner, I place the mouthpiece for the first time in the student's mouth so that it's at a little closer than 45 degrees - no protractor, just eyeballing.
From that point on, through my most advanced high school students, I don't say anything about angle unless it sounds to me that the student is having a problem that changing the angle might help solve. Then, I suggest trying different angles. If raising or lowering the clarinet makes a positive difference, usually the student and I both hear the difference. If it doesn't help, or worse, makes things worse, I leave the topic and try something else.
It isn't just a matter of how the weight of the clarinet impacts the way the embouchure and reed interact. People have different dental alignments that tend naturally to influence comfort at different angles. It's a very complicated set of relationships that I think can't be prescribed, as many teachers do, according to way the teacher plays. The angle that works well for me may be torture for a player with a different dental bite.
Pulling the instrument in too close to the body can also affect technique, which has occasionally come up with my students. Too close an angle (I'm talking about much more extreme than 30 degrees) can put stress on the wrist and forearm, which can be detrimental regardless of the effect on response and tone.
Karl
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-02-03 18:18
While I think there to a be a window of acceptable angles with the body/head that we hold the clarinet at, our examination of other players styles can often be misleading unless we first establish a baseline for where their head is at (quite literally--not metaphorically.)
Some players bend their heads somewhat, creating the illusion that the clarinet is at a smaller angle with respect to their torso than is/would be the case if they stood or sat up straight and brought the clarinet out more to respect that same angle.
I believe the best sound comes from the body being straight although I am not of the illusion that this should happen if muscle fatigue from holding the clarinet out more, or wrist pain associated with same compromise the benefits that posture plays in giving us the best pathway for the wind that fuels our sound.
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Author: PaulIsaac
Date: 2016-02-04 00:15
SarahC,
Regarding your sore thumb, I experienced the same thing until I purchased a rubber thumb rest cushion from a music store for a couple of dollars. Best clarinet accessory ever; your problem will disappear.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-02-04 01:34
Take a look at some videos of players with great sounds and fast fingers. Sabine Meyer, David Shifrin , lots of players. Even when they are standing and moving around their embouchure and clarinet angle is anchored firmly. Sabine may be dancing all over the place but that angle and position really never moves. Marcellus and Genusa both felt the same way.
Kind of funny, Gennusa smoke cigarettes. When he'd play at a lesson sometimes and had a lit cigarette he'd put it between his right index and middle finger, then play the clarinet. His clarinet position still didn't change!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-02-04 02:45
Paul Issac, thanks for that suggestion. although i haven't expressed the problem well enough. it is definitely an instrument weight issue, as i get it with recorders too even with soft thumb rests. the problem goes when i lift the recorder up enough that it is balancing rather than exerting gravity.. hard to explain i guess.
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Author: Agomongo
Date: 2016-02-04 08:20
SarahC wrote:
> Paul Issac, thanks for that suggestion. although i haven't
> expressed the problem well enough. it is definitely an
> instrument weight issue, as i get it with recorders too even
> with soft thumb rests. the problem goes when i lift the
> recorder up enough that it is balancing rather than exerting
> gravity.. hard to explain i guess.
I've never heard that one should balance it. I know that from Larry Guy's book he said that the thumb should be pushing upwards.
Also, yeah I believe the German set up requires almost no embouchure. I'm sure it's easier, but at the same time I'm sure it causes some other issues, because of it.
I'm also noticed that when I hold it around 30 degrees the tone is a lot more even and easier to go over the break.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2016-02-04 18:28
I've always taught what's best for the student based on experimenting somewhat. Everyone is different, overbite, underbite, strong jaw, weaker jaw etc. There are many factors including the beak of the mouthpiece and the strengh of the reed. Many years ago at a lesson with Robert Marcellus, after almost an hour of his observation, he suggested I hold the clarinet out very slightly. We both agreed it made my tone slightly fuller. As a student at Aspen the teacher, Earl Bates, had me hold the clarinet flat against my chin, when I returned home my teacher Eric Simon at Mannes at the time I agreed it closed off my tone. Experiment, find the angle that fits the player, same for how much MP to take in your mouth. Every person is different.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2016-02-05 02:09
Now you've all got me thinking and going back to checking out on all this.
Using my double embouchure (mostly) I sound an 'open' G (no fingers) and hold my Clarinet at various angles. Result ? Approximately 45 deg. That is the ideal position for my best sound. I also suspect that my sound is being projected outwards more as well because of the bell being at that angle. But everyone is different for any number of reasons.
I'm not alone in using this higher position. Check out the picture of Fredrick Thurston (1901-1953) in his Tutor book (page 10) The Clarinet (A Comprehensive Method)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-02-05 03:00
Barry Vincent wrote:
> I also suspect that my sound is being projected outwards
> more as well because of the bell being at that angle.
There are lots of important reasons why players use different mouthpiece angles, but we shouldn't slide into using this one - most of the sound doesn't come from the bell for most of the clarinet's compass. If anything, you might make a case that for most notes the more you face the tone holes toward the ceiling (with a high angle), the less sound goes straight out toward the audience.
Karl
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2016-02-05 07:08
KDK. Yes. generally you are correct. As we all know , the sound of a Woodwind instrument comes out everywhere, including all those lovely tone holes. Some have even suggested that vibrations project through the entire body of the instrument , and that seems plausible. However, there is one hole down there at the end of the Clarinet that projects sound directly and uninhibited. I assume that's why it's called the Bell. The tone holes also project sound but this is obstructed by the fingers which are above them. Even those fingers that are not being used are only approximately half a centimeter or so above the tone holes, or should be, for good finger placement.
* The Bell also has other functions that are a bit mysterious to me. Others will know a lot more about this.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2016-02-05 07:12)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-02-05 07:44
The bell should not be mysterious at all. Take your clarinet, play on it for a while, then take the bell off and play again. How does that sound? It is even more enlightening to play on a cracked bell (though I wouldn't recommend cracking one on purpose just to get the idea). The difference in sound between a bell with a hairline crack and one that is whole is quite dramatic. The resonance of the whole horn is dependent on the bell; it is not just for the tuning of the last few notes.
...............Paul Aviles
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