 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-01-28 09:37
Attachment: e13_modified_germany__inserts_05.jpg (257k)
Attachment: e13_modified_germany__inserts_o-ring_01.jpg (283k)
This is the most amazing clarinet modification I've ever seen... and not in a good way
This is a new Buffet E13. This modification cost extra, probably by even more than you think it would...
Basically almost all notes on the lower section wouldn't play.
As part of the modification it was completely repadded with two types of very rubbery synthetic pads, some of which were very soft and spongy (significantly softer than the soft model of Valentino pads).
I noticed it had plastic inserts for all tone holes (even the register vent and the left hand 3rd finger hole). After some checking I found that the leaks came from the inserts, so I guessed the glue failed.
Putting a rubber plug in one of the inserts caused it to turn but also to move down lower, which was strange. It turned out the tone holes were drilled out completely all the way to bore. Usually they are drilled/bored only part of the way.
It gets "better"... looking into the bore, it looks like some chips missing from the bore around the tone holes, I guess from the drilling/boring.
Then I removed one of the inserts and this is the amazing part... it was held by a single O-ring. This O-ring is the only thing that supported the insert against the player's finger. It also didn't seal and moved while they were playing.
Every single tone hole on this clarinet was completely drilled/bored out and had an insert installed this way. Going through all this trouble to make a clarinet so much less reliable is what's amazing...
Photos attached.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-01-28 11:51
Looks like a 5th grader got a hold of his dad's tools!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-01-28 12:58
So what was the point of the modification? Did u buy this instrument second hand? Or was it advertised as a special feature e13?
Curious and curiouser
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-28 15:12
I can't honestly see the point of doing this kind of modification on an E13 which is only going to push the price of it near that of a Prestige, plus the fact it's now a wreck of an instrument.
It's a German company that does this modification and they stamp their name on the top joint above the Buffet logo/model number.
So is drilling out integral toneholes and push fitting in plastic ones merely held in with O-rings a thing? I hope not - bad enough with thumb tubes being held in place with rubber O-rings, but not every single tonehole and also drilling them straight through to the bore.
Someone explain the logic behind this as it's clearly lost on me.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-01-28 17:05
>> So what was the point of the modification? Did u buy this instrument second hand? Or was it advertised as a special feature e13? <<
I didn't buy it. It was brought to me because about half the clarinet stopped playing.
>> Soft pads mean that the tone holes can be very sloppy and still seal <<
Most of the pads weren't soft, plus the few soft ones were really not a major issue compared with everything else. Actually, the tone holes were machined plastic and more accurate and flat than most tone holes on most clarinets.
>> Someone explain the logic behind this as it's clearly lost on me <<
You can spend the rest of time looking for it but you'd still not find it
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BartHx
Date: 2016-01-29 06:17
Clearly, the one you show in place has to have been turned ninety degrees from its intended position. It also seems to have been inserted far enough that there is a leak between the O-ring and the bore. A wild imagination might be able to come up with some "logic" if there were a limit to how far the liners could be inserted. But, what you show in your photos??????
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-01-29 09:10
>> the one you show in place has to have been turned ninety degrees from its intended position. <<
Yes, simply from putting a rubber plug to check seal. It turned and moved lower.
Also photo is meant to show that missing chip at the side of the tone hole, which was one of several.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mojo
Date: 2016-01-29 18:10
Bizarre. Seems like a lot of work to make a clarinet worse. Maybe it was a test instrument to try different tone hole sizes and shapes.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-01-29 18:17
I also think it was meant to do research. I can't think of any other explanation for the considerable amount of work it took to modify it.
Steve Ocone
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2016-01-29 19:44
The research theory makes sense to me. On the surface, it might not seem wise to conduct drastic experiments on a clarinet that's worth something, instead of on a worthless clarinet-shaped object, but someone trying out this type of work would have to do so on a half-decent clarinet for the results to mean anything. Of course *now* it's a CSO, but....
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-29 20:25
If you want to use a basic test bed clarinet to do tonehole experiments on, then it's probably better to open up the existing toneholes by cutting them out with flat topped cutters to accept plastic inserts (as you'd do when bushing a tonehole), but leave the cut-outs with a bottom like a socket instead of cutting right through to the bore and risk leaving splinters or voids.
That would at least give the plastic inserts (that can be made with any size and shaped tonehole you like) something solid to sit onto rather than having them dropping through to the bore if any excessive pressure is applied. And then the O-rings will be successful in creating a seal and the inserts won't have to be radiused on the undersides to match the bore either.
I wonder how much that bumped the price of this clarinet up to by having all this (unnecessary) work done?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2016-01-29 21:03
It seems like a good way to test the effect of undercutting. Could it possibly be a prototype?
-Jdbassplayer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-01-29 21:04
Re the "research" or "prototype" theory, it's possible, but that would mean it was sold by accident instead of a clarinet meant for sale. It's extremely unlikely and I doubt this is what happened, but sure there's a tiny chance that it did.
Post Edited (2016-01-29 21:05)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-29 23:00
It certainly wouldn't be the first time Buffet let out an instrument with design flaws.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2016-01-30 03:27
I had a friend during college who got scammed on an instrument by her own teacher.
He promised her a "custom" Buffet that had all these bizarre modifications done to it, and naively she sold her own R-13 to him, and picked up this one for a couple thousand dollars.
When I saw it and played it, something about it really bothered me; the sound and response of the instrument just wasn't there, honestly it was worse than her R-13, which was from the 70's and with some maintenance would have served her much better.
Under a powerful magnifying glass and lights, I was able to see evidence that the E13 portion of the logo had been rubbed out.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-01-30 09:28
>> It certainly wouldn't be the first time buffet let out an instrument with design flaws from experimentation. <<
These modifications weren't done by Buffet. They were done by the store that sold the clarinet, which was completely honest about doing these modifications and explained this is why it costs more than a regular E13.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-01-30 18:34
Tone hole inserts aren't a bad idea if they are done properly. To restore this instrument would exceed it's value (at least for me).
Steve Ocone
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-30 19:30
Buffet only recently supplied me with a brand new E12F for a customer as the cost to put right the disaster that was an E11F was well over and above the cost of a new one if it was at all possible, which it wasn't.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-01-31 10:58
Chris, I just have an E12F here now and although it's mostly good (there are a few issues), there is one serious manufacturing defect that is almost unbelievable. It's obvious they tried to band-aid it (at the factory)... but unsuccessfully.
Do you still have the E12F? If you do I'll contact you, curious how the same part is on a different one.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-31 15:56
The E12F went out just before Christmas, but I had some setting up to do on it.
I didn't see any problems they tried to rectify and it played nicely once it was set up. The main problem I found on it (as with nearly all Buffets) is the huge gap in the linkage between the LH F/C lever foot and the linkage piece on the back of the RH F/C key which took some doing to reduce it and also make it parallel.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: modernicus
Date: 2017-05-15 03:29
I wonder if the part of aim is to try to essentially refashion a French clarinet into something else, more like a German bore Boehm or reform Boehm clarinet? That's the only reason I can see for going through to the bore- that way the amount of undercutting can be changed. The splintering at the bore is disconcerting as well as the lack of a way to firmly keep these inserts in place, apparently. If one doesn't want to glue them, perhaps a tapered hole would have been better. I have a clarinet I obtained that has 4 or 5 completely butchered tone holes and I was actually wondering if something like this could work. Funny it should pop up now...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
