 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Zain
Date: 2016-01-18 21:57
Does anyone have any more information on this new clarinet Buffet Crampon is producing? It is described to have an all new bore family and that it is inspired by an early professional clarinet the "BC20."
"Introducing the new Buffet Crampon clarinet: Tradition
Featuring a new cylindrical bore design, the new clarinet harkens back to the purity of sound produced by the BC20, with a tone hole placement inspired by the Tosca design. The result is an instrument that presents a clear, focused, rich sound suitable for any acoustic environment and an even scale for consistent intonation throughout all registers.
The new clarinet also places its roots firmly in research and development from Buffet Crampon’s American and French Artists. The American team, composed of Buffet Crampon Artists Jonathan Gunn, Burt Hara, Victoria Luperi, Mark Nuccio and Gregory Raden, along with French Artists Michel Arrignon, Nicolas Baldeyrou and Paul Meyer, were united around this project to share their performance experiences as orchestral players and soloists, and world view of the clarinet. And what a result!"
Video:
https://youtu.be/jp52tsrtIa4
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2016-01-18 22:38
Maybe someone at BC tried a Peter Eaton and decided he was onto something, some 30 years after they sunk Boosey & Hawkes.
Post Edited (2016-01-18 22:43)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ursa
Date: 2016-01-18 22:55
Cylindrical bore, in a new-for-2016 instrument?
Everything old is new again: Buffet reintroduces the "Pre-R13".
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2016-01-18 23:14
"a clarinet in its most natural form, with no unnecessary changes or overstated technology". It sounds like Tosca and Divine have a lot of them...
Lee
Post Edited (2016-01-18 23:27)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-01-18 23:39
Isn't the name an oxymoron? "New" "Tradition"?
Make up your minds, Buffet -- is it new, or traditional?
Personally I couldn't care less about new Buffets, they're all overpriced, overhyped and underwhelming.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2016-01-19 00:25
I'm definitely interested. Doubt I'd change from the vintage horns I have, but I've never liked polycylindrical or reverse conical bores. If Buffet starts doing this, it will hopefully encourage other makers to do the same.
Selmer should sell reference clarinets....a Reference '55 Centered Tone would be perfect, along with a Reference R.I. and/or BT
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2016-01-19 00:32
A clarinet in its most natural form is a tree; everything else is necessarily artificial. The instruments might actually be great--who knows without trying them?--but with the Boosey and Hawkeses and the Eatons, people always emphasize that the mouthpiece also has to be compatible with the cylindrical bore. It would be surprising if a cylindrical bore clarinet intended to be played with mouthpieces designed for a polycylindrical bore didn't contain some compromises.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Peacock
Date: 2016-01-19 00:43
A BC20 doesn't feel or sound in the slightest like an Eaton (the normal-bore "International", I mean, never mind the large-bore "Elite").
But if this new machine is a Tosca without the disadvantages (overpriced, annoyingly placed F correction key, ugly over-rounded keys, pointless hunk of metal for a logo), that wouldn't be entirely a bad thing. Sound-wise, those are probably the best things Buffet currently make.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2016-01-19 00:55
The website doesn't seem to say what kind of bore the Eaton "International" has other than "small," but the "Elite" is cylindrical--it's a B & H 1010 with tuning improvements and undercutting, but no action key. The 1010s seem more stable jumping registers quickly than any BC I've ever played, which may well have to do with the bore. At least some German Oehler instruments have cylindrical bores. A lot of "reform Boehm" instruments are marketed as having a "German bore," but there usually are no details. Anyway, it's not a new thing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Peacock
Date: 2016-01-19 03:09
The International doesn't seem to be all that cylindrical. On my Bb, the upper joint tapers from 15.13 mm at the top to 14.81 at the bottom: slightly bigger in both dimensions than a Buffet R13 but with a larger top-to-bottom difference. On a 1974 BC20, the corresponding dimensions are 15.09 and 14.68, so it actually tapers more than either an Eaton or an R13. Don't know how to square that with the Buffet blurb about cylindrical bore: possibly they mean a longer cylindrical section internal to the joint. But this is certainly not at all cylindrical in the sense of a 1010, where top and bottom dimensions are the same to within 0.03 mm.
There's a picture of the thing on the Howarth website. No F correction key, thank goodnesss - but they've changed the Buffet logo. So much for "tradition"...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2016-01-19 03:40
I wonder if my late-1920s Selmer Paris "Brevete" horn is cylindrical? I know it is pre-polycylindrical It has a sweet voice but the intonation is definitely different.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CEC
Date: 2016-01-19 18:07
"A clarinet in its most natural form is a tree"
I can't overstate how much I love that statement!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2016-01-19 19:32
> Their model line has become overkill.
Yes, exactly. They're starting to sound like automotive and cell phone manufacturers - putting out a brand new model each year. New, Shiny! You need one!
They need to focus on fixing the flaws in their designs - plastic pins on the lower left side levers (which break), weak thumb rests, peel and stick key cork that falls off, torn pads on brand new instruments, tuning/voicing issues on new instruments, etc. This is all marketing hype - put out a new model every year or 2 instead of fixing the existing flaws.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-19 20:45
The E12F I recently checked over has a much beefier adjustable thumbrest which is set higher up the lower joint, so offering more adjustment than downwards only.
But they still have the nylon pins in the LH levers - I give these backbone by drilling them all the way through and fitting in a piece of 0.8mm or 0.9mm steel spring. Much easier doing this (and far less costly) than fabricating stainless steel or carbon fibre replacement ones.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2016-01-20 01:52
I've yet to see anything more than a Prestige in my shop. I see a very high percentage of R13's. What's old seems to be new.
jbutler
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ursa
Date: 2016-01-20 07:32
What an odd reality: Many of us here on the BBoard have wished for Selmer to bring back something like the CT, but I doubt that anyone reading this thread has ever longed for a new cylindrical-bore Buffet... and yet, the Tradition is now here.
It's been mentioned above, perhaps in jest, that Buffet could have found something to like about B&H and Peter Eaton instruments and incorporated that into the Tradition. Isn't it just as likely that the new Tradition has design elements borrowed from the Leblanc and Noblet instruments once built at the former Noblet works now owned by Buffet? The tooling was already there...it's curious how they don't list a bore dimension that might hint at such a connection.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2016-01-20 11:40
If Buffet was really smart they would go back to offering one professional and one student instrument each in the clarinet family like they used to do many years ago.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeroen
Date: 2016-01-20 12:33
I was always under the impression that the BC20 was a model evolved from the R13, designed for the European market. Later evolving into the RC. I would expect then the BC20 has already a poly-cylindrical bore. Anyone knows?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sax panther
Date: 2016-01-20 13:03
I wonder what the price will be...no price info on Howarths website yet. Doesn't have fancy gizmos like correction keys, so I'm guessing it will be same kind of figure as an R13 or RC?
You see quite a few BC20s coming up on the auction website, so I suppose getting one of those and getting it overhauled by a really good tech would be more cost effective.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-01-22 02:15
Looks like they're developing a new bass clarinet too. The removable low C extension is very interesting. I’m also intrigued by what looks like a bell plated in a different metal in the background (at about 1:27, on the right)... Perhaps we can expect new bells to go with these? Or maybe it's just an unplated bell, I can't tell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6y7igLfZ38
Post Edited (2016-01-22 02:26)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CEC
Date: 2016-01-22 07:22
Leave it to Buffet to make the unavailability of sufficiently long billets into a "feature."
Please forgive my snarkiness
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-01-28 09:10
Unfortunately, based on the many new Buffet clarinets I've seen in the last few years, I'd say their new tradition is lowering costs as much as possible at the expense of manufacturing quality....... because they still play very nicely (most of them).
Post Edited (2016-01-28 09:18)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-01-28 11:15
Yes it was at the NAMM show.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sonicbang
Date: 2016-01-28 23:46
This is ridiculous. With this advertisement they actually confess they didn't added anything valuable to the clarinet design in the past 30+ years. BC 20s were really good horns. Now they are back with garbage quality wood! Hurray!
Mark
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-01-29 01:27
When I was at the Buffet booth the people were wonderful. When I looked at he clarinets they all looked the same! I did tell the California rep that I wish they'd put more care into their workmanship and ship off clarinets that are in perfect playing condition. For example the horns all leak! So when you play test a horn it's hard to tell if the quality of the horn is good or bad. If you can't obtain an 1/8 second seal on the horn it's pointless to try it. You should be able to get at least a 5 second seal. When I repair horns I'm looking for 30 second seals. I will keep changing pads until I get that perfect seal.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jthole
Date: 2016-02-21 19:59
"Inspired by a pre-1950s design" does not fit with the BC20 at all. That pre-1950s design they talk about is likely the Master Bore design.
Post Edited (2016-02-22 17:15)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jthole
Date: 2018-07-16 00:17
Kicking up an old thread, but some might find this interesting:
John Peacock:
"On a 1974 BC20, the corresponding dimensions are 15.09 and 14.68, so it actually tapers more than either an Eaton or an R13."
I measured my 1962 BC20, and the dimensions I get are 14.75 and 14.45. So that bore seems a bit narrower, but the speed of the taper (1:1.021) looks to be similar. Nowhere near cylindrical, I would say.
Compared to a 1972 Buffet Continentale (F-serial number): 14.58 versus 14.45. That's almost a cylindrical bore.
Tthe Continentale was advertised for "chamber music", while the BC20 was in the catalog for "symphonic orchestras". The character of both instruments is also very different indeed. I don't know how much of that has to do with the taper of the bores actually.
Post Edited (2018-07-16 20:22)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Peacock
Date: 2018-07-16 20:51
jthole: interesting about the Continentale being so different to the BC20. I've heard both instruments (and the S1) described as RC forerunners, but this doesn't sound consistent with your measurements.
I've never had the chance to play a Continentale - how would you describe it in comparison with the BC20 (and with an R13)?
And back to the original subject: surely by now someone has had the chance to make measurements of the Tradition bore???
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jthole
Date: 2018-07-16 21:13
R13s are very uncommon here, but compared to other Buffets I have played (E13, RC, BC20) I would call the Continentale "precise". It has a clear tone, the intonation is very even, and articulation is easy. It works best in a small ensemble.
The BC20 has more volume, and more "presence". OTOH, it feels not as even as the Continentale. It works well as a solo instrument, and also is my choice for the wind orchestras I play in.
The BC20 has the best altissimo of the two. By the way, since the BC20 is already from 1962, my bore measurements could indicate a slightly shrunken bore.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
