 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2016-01-13 08:56
I often find that reeds that I really enjoy at home sound really bright once I use them in the band room and some reeds that I didn't like as much at home sound really good in the band room. What should I use as my benchmark?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-13 10:10
Ok, this is GREAT. You are HEARING acoustic differences from one acoustic environment to another. But this is the wrong question. The question should be, what do I want to sound like in performance (whatever that space is like and whatever those conditions are)?
I loved the Larry Guy interview (I go on and on about it I know). At one point he quotes one of his famous teachers (forgot which one) who said, "you are not playing for the second clarinetist......he just wants your job anyway." The serious take away from that is, you want to generate a sound (and this is the hard part) that sounds great from the perspective of the audience NOT what sounds great up close (and it won't sound "great" up close.......good, but not necessarily what YOU want to hear either).
This takes some fancy feedback using friends, conductors, peers, etc and more gap in time than just listening to yourself in a room, but if you get trusted, reliable feedback, you should be golden in just a few weeks.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-13 14:52
I get this far more with oboe/cor and sax and not so much on clarinet - a reed that sounds great at home often sounds horrendous in a concert hall setting. If it's a nice lively sound at home, it sounds too thin in a large hall.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-01-13 17:44
I think it depends on what the room is like where you practice, but in any case the sound that you produce in a performing venue is what counts the most. The sound that you hear in your practice room isn't the end goal. But of course, you need a sense of the correspondence between the one space and the other or reed selection and adjustment will be difficult.
That said, I think the *feel* of the reed, the ease with which you can produce legato, clean articulations, dynamic changes and other expressive subtleties shouldn't be affected as much by the room acoustic. The way the reed responds is very local at the point where you and the mouthpiece meet. IMO a responsive reed is a responsive reed, regardless of the tone quality that eventually reaches your ears. When you practice at home, it's much more important to have the instrument respond to what you're trying to do than it is to hear an ideal tone quality.
Karl
Post Edited (2016-01-13 18:02)
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-01-13 20:31
This is a very interesting topic.
I have for a long time used #3 reeds at home (small room) and a #3.5 in orchestral practice situations (large hall).
I often noticed in orchestral setting that I blew so hard, that my reeds felt very thin and too weak. But when playing solo alone at home, I cannot play that loudly all the time (or ever).
I have since started to accept a bit of "airy" sound and trying to use #3.5 all the time, because I had a hard time managing good reeds for performance when I had so few orchestral situations to find good reeds.
I've read somewhere here on the board I believe, that some people argue that if it sounds thin to you, it might sound great at the audience.
Perhaps recording oneself at rehearsals is the best way, together with asking for others advice of course?
Regards
Peter
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2016-01-13 20:54
Yea, the thing is I switch from different reed brands so I never really know what's going on and I'm always wondering what others are hearing, if its the same that I'm hearing.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2016-01-13 22:11
Locke -- you just received a lot of good advice. But you missed an important point: what you're hearing and what the audience hears is not the same, and it will not be. Just as when you hear a recording of your voice and you discover how different it is from what you know -- the voice on the recording is your REAL voice, the one that others experience you as.
Get some knowledgeable help to hear you from a distance in a hall (and record it for yourself as well!), and figure out what reed/arrangement allows you to sound your best at a distance. Then stop fiddling with all the different reeds.
Good luck, and I agree with Paul: great question.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-01-13 23:05
Hi,
Here is a link to the Ploeger Sound Mirror. I realize several people on this BB will say that a sax radiates the sound differently than a clarinet but try to see if something like the sound mirror might be useful in developing a concept of what your actual sound happens to be.
http://www.ploegersaxsoundmirror.com
I've used one of these for gigs and it does prevent me overblowing since in a large room, there is a tendency to do that to "make one's self heard better." When I try new reeds on bass clarinet or on a sax though, I always turn toward the paneled wall where I practice. It's just like using a "sound mirror."
HRL
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2016-01-14 00:39
I can't agree with this common focus on what tone quality the audience hears. What matters is that they hear playing that is musical. The way that is most likely to happen is if the performer feels comfortable and enjoys what they're doing. But if it sounds thin and horrible to me as I play, even a 100% guarantee that the sound is rich and full at the back of the hall is not going to make me happy and likely to play well.
So I agree with the phenomenon of needing stronger reeds in a hall than at home. I've met this so often you'd think I would have learned by now: but even though I try to search for reeds at home that feel a bit harder than necessary, I still keep getting caught out. I've concluded that there is an almost vanishingly small range of strength for a really good reed - one that will give you sufficient feeling of solidity in a big hall and yet not feel like a plank when practicing at home.
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2016-01-14 04:18
I've been watching that interview with larry guy and I realized that I don't think I'm ever going to need to really project in a concert hall, because I don't really plan on becoming a professional. So, how does that affect all the advice above? Also is there a way to mimic a hall out home, through a long hallway or something like that?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-14 06:00
OK, some good points and questions.
Firstly, yes, the music is most important. But what role are you filling when playing music? If it is in an ensemble (any ensemble), then you cannot (or should not) take a purely selfish, aesthetic argument (which just smacks of laziness to me). But if you are indeed just playing in your living room, and that is as far as it ever goes, by all means you work to to serve yourself and yourself alone.......no need to ask anyone for advice on sound. YOU are the arbiter of your sound, period.
A really important issue we brought up is hard reeds. I think nothing could be further from the truth about projection. What you want in a sound to "carry" and have prominence is overtones. It will sound buzzier up from your perspective. Mostly this is accomplished with a reed/mouthpiece combination that allows the reed to vibrate MORE freely not less freely which is what happens when the reed is harder, more resistant (less likely to vibrate at the tip or anywhere else).
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-01-14 07:32
locke9342 wrote:
> I don't think I'm ever going to need to really project in
> a concert hall, because I don't really plan on becoming a
> professional. So, how does that affect all the advice above?
Your question wasn't predicated on your ever becoming a pro. You asked whether you should "benchmark" your reeds by how they sound "in the band room" or at home. If sounding your best in the band room is a priority, then your not having professional ambitions doesn't really change the answers.
Karl
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2016-01-15 06:21
If you have reeds that sound good in your band room as well as reeds that sound good at home you're set! They don't have to be the same; if you're happy with your sound and feel both places, go with it. I have reeds for work -- I try them on stage, break them in at work, leave them in my locker. If they don't work in the hall or are played out I take them home for practice. I can adjust to a reed at home, so I can get my work done on a reed that wouldn't be close with the orchestra, where I constantly have to match pitch, dynamics, and color and the reed has to be able to go where I need it to go. I don't think that I change my sound concept at home or settle for less, I'm always practicing for sound. But I "love the one I'm with" rather than trying to get a great reed at home. So I'd say you benchmark your sound in your head, and adjust as needed to your environment. I've noticed over the years that it's not unusual for great players to spend a lot of time and money on reeds (and mouthpieces). But the very best players sound like themselves on anything; if they had a bad reed you'd never know by listening to them. I don't have that trick but I aspire to it, so I try not to give the reed too much say when I practice.
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2016-01-17 21:15
I just did a test with my zoom h5 recorder in a large practice space at work.
I placed my recorder in the other side of the room, and left it there.
I then tested numerous reeds and different strengths and tried to project as much as I could. While playing I felt as I usually do: the soft ones were maxed out early and sounded a bit thin but easier to hit high notes. The stronger reeds were much more work but more to blow against.
I expected the stronger reeds to display a much louder volume when I got home and listened.
To my surprise! When I listened to all recordings and I graphically compared the waveforms and could not say that one was louder than the other. The softer reeds didn't sound thin or in any way worse than my stronger reeds.
I might very well try to use my softer reeds at all time now even if it feels strange at first!
Regards
Peter
Post Edited (2016-01-17 21:18)
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