 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Nadine
Date: 2016-01-10 17:30
I am using a Vandoren M13 mouthpiece and a V12 #3 Reed and I am at the point where they are too soft for me. I can't consistently attain high E, F, or G. I tried a v12 3.5 and it was very stiff and I felt like I was going to blow my eyeballs out. My instructor gave me a v21 3.5 and a v56 3.5 and both of these are too soft in the tip to reach the high notes.
So what should I do? Do I keep working the v12 3.5 and hope it softens up enough for me to play? Thanks, Nadine
Post Edited (2016-01-10 17:32)
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Author: knotty
Date: 2016-01-10 17:44
I'm no expert by any means but it sounds like to me there's something else going on besides the reed and or mpc combination.
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-01-10 18:15
Hi Nadine:
An answer
Try moving the reed up on the mouthpiece by the smallest amount you can...like 1/64" if it's soft, and in the opposite direction if it's hard. If you have to move the reed much beyond 1/16", IMHO, the reed needs adjustment by sanding.
The background
...when any of us goes out and buys, for example, a carton of milk, we can expect the volume (in fluid ounces for US (pun)) printed on the label to be extremely correlated to the quantity we get. Sure it's not exact, but its close, and at least in theory, tested for accuracy by both the manufacturer and, at least in the States (elsewhere I strongly suspect too), the governing body of weights and standards.
The strength number on a reed though is only loosely correlated with its strength. Manufactures cut all reeds of a brand identically and let the fact that mother nature makes reed cane of all different strengths produce the strength variability we see in it. Restated: there is nothing the manufacturer of cane reeds does to create strength variability--it's entirely in mother nature's hands.
Once cut, the manufacturer uses machines to apply a known force (a puff of air of controlled pressure and duration) to the reed, and notes how much the reed deflects. More deflection = softer labelled reed. But this is a one time test that speaks nothing to how the reed will react to you, your mouthpiece, and exposure to moisture, etc.
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With the (extremely inexact) science of strength labelling now understood please realize that your experiences are with so few reeds, that it's hard to draw conclusions.
So how do the rest of us players cope with the situation you face?
1) We buy reeds of a slightly stronger strength than we're comfortable with and learn to sand them down (a discussion for another thread involving specific techniques).
2) We seem to always be adjusting them on the mouthpiece. We move the reed not only left and right to try to make each side respond similarly (again a discussion for another thread), but do that which appears in bold at the top of this post.
Post Edited (2016-01-10 18:18)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-01-10 18:15
Is your teacher a clarinetist? I'd be inclined to agree with knotty that something else is wrong - very possibly the way you're trying to produce the altissimo notes. Especially if you've been experiencing repeated failure with them, you may be trying to do something to make them come out that's actually counterproductive and getting in your way.
What, beside your problem with altissimo E, F and G (I'm assuming those are the notes you mean - the ones on leger lines above the staff), is happening in the lower registers to make you feel the #3s are too soft?
Karl
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Author: Nadine
Date: 2016-01-10 18:48
Thanks to everyone.
A few more details.
Yes my instructor is a very good clarinetist. He heads up much of the music department at Colby College.
When I use new V12 no3 the altissimo notes pop right out most of the time, if I get a good reed to start with. After the reed is played for a few minutes notes are gone. Even on a broken in 3. Most of the v12 3's are very easy to blow and buzzy when I take them out of the box. So I figured it is time to move up to a 3.5, which is where I would like to end up. I like the sound and tone better than a 3.
I did try moving a v56 3.5 up on the mouthpiece last night and it did not make much of a difference.
Nadine
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-01-10 20:23
By moving to the next higher strength, you've done what you can with out-of-the-box reeds. After that, you need to find an approach to tongue position and embouchure formation and perhaps method of blowing that will produce the high notes easily and/or to adjust the heavier reeds to match your mouthpiece to provide more flexibility in the altissimo register. Your teacher, since he is a good clarinetist, is the best one to diagnose what's wrong and what you should try to correct it, since he hears you and we don't.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-10 22:51
I have until just very recently used the M13 and Vandoren nr 4 strength reeds (usu. Rue Lepic and started in on the V21s).
What I had been doing most of my career (though I wish I could have done things differently) was to apply force with my embouchure (I guess I'll just call it biting) that made the reed come in closer to the tip of the mouthpiece. It sounds a little like what you may be doing.
The harder reeds will balance out fine and you can get a really good sound this way, but I would recommend finding some way (and again, I never found that solution on French mouthpieces) to have a more relaxed approach so that you are not in affect winding up with a smaller tip opening through brute force.
The harder reed approach requires more physicality and entails more stress - not good. It's doable but not recommended. Avoiding this "work/stress" cycle gives you a lot more freedom to concentrate on music and it will give you more durability.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Nadine
Date: 2016-01-11 01:25
Thanks again.
I am going to work on embouchure and mouth- jaw position and see what I can do.
Nadine
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-01-11 04:10
Does your teacher have a different mouthpiece that you can try?
On #3 V12s, I usually can find a good double high C on a new reed. After using a reed for a week or so, it may not be as easy, however.
If I can't play the high notes on a mouthpiece, I often check the tip rail or the side rails near the tip. This is often the cause of not being able to get those very high notes and I can modify the mouthpiece accordingly but you probably do not know how to do that. Perhaps another mouthpiece would work. Good luck!
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2016-01-11 07:01
What Paul said. Try taking in more mouthpiece and/or pushing your jaw forward and loosening up. If you don't have enough reed you are dampening the 3rd harmonic. It pops right out when you have enough.
A fresh reed might have enough resilience to counter the effect of taking in less mouthpiece, but when it breaks in it doesn't resist your efforts anymore. If the reed is too hard you are probably biting or using your embouchure to close it enough to play, but too much for the high notes.
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