 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Carcamalisio
Date: 2016-01-09 03:08
Hi everybody. I'm new on this forum. I'm from spain and I have a question for you. I'm playing with plastic reeds, but i have many reeds that I feel that they are very hard, since i changed mouthpiece (due to tuning) so I would like to make them softer. Does anyone know how to modify a synthetic reed? The reeds are Legere-Nick "H". Thanks in advance!
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-01-09 03:27
Legere reeds can be softened slightly by dipping the tip about 1.5Cm into boiling water for a couple of seconds. This will take, for example, a 3 to a 2.5 or thereabouts.
Tony F.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-09 17:59
Dear Carcamalisio,
I have to ask since I've been working the Nick/Legere a lot lately, what is the "H" designation?
As for strength, mine always settle down to be a quarter strength weaker after a week or so.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-01-09 20:59
My experience, and that of other posters is that the boiling process may need to be repeated. Specifically, I found it to be effective, but the next day, the reed seemed to return back to most of its original strength.
Clearly, my "test of one," is at best anecdotal. I can not speak to the permanence of the softening with boiling repetition, and others may have found only one boil, or some other technique more effective.
Do I even have to say....but for liability I will: don't put the reed directly or immediately into your mouth after boiling it. It may be too hot for comfort. You may even burn yourself. Allowing time for, and/or otherwise cool it first.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-01-10 01:15
One difference between Legere and Forestone reeds is that Forestones can, in theory, be scraped the way you would a cane reed to adjust it. I haven't had much success in doing it - the material is harder than cane and the cost of making a really ruinous mistake is much greater than that of taking too much out of a cane reed.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-10 05:47
Does Forestone make a German cut reed such as the Nick/Legere?
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2016-01-10 07:42
I have scraped Leger reeds with variable success to soften them. It requires very slow work, testing frequently. It will work if you are patient.
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: Carcamalisio
Date: 2016-01-10 13:39
"H" means hard. I think there are "M" (medium) and "H" (Hard). But, as cane reeds, there are a lot of differences between same hardness reeds.
I will try to dip the reed into boiling water. Thanks.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-10 14:04
Dear Carcamalisio,
I have seen the strength designations of "M" (= 2 1/2) and "H" (and "MH" = 3), on the Hartmann reeds. The Nick Legere reeds that I have been purchasing both here and through Thomann in Germany are available in a variety of strengths each a 1/4 from the other (such as 2 1/4, 2 1/2, 2 3/4 etc.).
If you are not seeing these sizes where you are, order from Thomann.
This is the 2 1/2 (as an example):
http://www.thomann.de/gb/legere_b_kl_deutsch_2_1_2.htm?ref=search_rslt_Legere+German+cut_248260_2
And if you are using the Hartmann, you'll find a SIGNIFICANT improvement with the Nick/Legere!
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Carcamalisio
Date: 2016-01-10 14:26
Hi Paul, thanks for your replies.
I purchased my reeds directly form the Playnick website. I think i dont use the same reeds as you. Here is the website:
http://www.playnick.com/index.php?cmd=s&id=189
And a reed is 30€! Are really expensive. They say that these reeds are made specifically for the playeasy mouthpiece, but I use them with vandoren and sounds really nice. The hardness is hand-writed with a permanent marker. I will post a photo when I can if you are interested.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-10 23:06
I must admit I am getting more confused.
These are THE Nick/Legere German cut reeds for German clarinets. There is NO "M," or "H" designation for a Legere reed.
The other confusing thing is that you use a Vandoren mouthpiece. You may be using the VD Vandoren (ostensibly a "German mouthpiece"), but if not, you are also dealing with a severe mismatch of how a reed is cut vs. the type of facing on which you are using it. Nick/Legere work on real German mouthpiece with real German facings.......period.
The German cut reed (anyone's "REAL" German cut reed) is not only narrower, but more importantly it features a much shorter vamp with a 'chisel' cut (flatter; not as round from side to side).
I know there are those out there using these reeds on French clarinets, but they are NOT maximizing their own native talents. They are allowing the equipment to dictate unnecessary obstacles to their playing.
Finally I must also do a short rant on the Vandoren "German mouthpiece." There is nothing German about it. I had Oehler system Wulitzers and the VD mouthpieces just fell into, and rolled around in the barrel. On a French clarinet you can see that the tenon of the mouthpiece is TOO long. Can't say I know any application for this mouthpiece (besides a doorstop).
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-11 08:20
The packaging is different for these reeds when sold through Kuckmeier so there may be a different means of designating strength. I would think you'd have much more flexibility with strength buying the ones that come in increments of 1/4.
And price is a factor of how much use you get out of it. Let's say you use a standard cane reed at (many list for $50 per box but let's say you find a good low price) $25/box. If you average at least a few hours a day, you'll rotate through the usable reeds and have to open a new box every two months (if you can make your rotation last that long). So over the course of a year you conservatively spend 6 x $25 or $150 per year. Now, one Legere reed can last a year or more (I've heard more is pretty common), so if that reed cost you $30 (and you could find better prices than that), then you've spent $30 per year on a reed.
Even with VERY conservative numbers, the Legere comes out WAY ahead in terms of cost over time. I hope I haven't convinced Legere to up the price to $100 per reed!
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2016-01-13 01:51
Paul,
I guess I can explain here. The Nick/Legere German cut reeds you are using are the "original" or "classic" version. Not so long ago, Nick/Legere developed a new "signature" version of German cut reeds and on these reeds, they usually only mark "S", "M" and "H". This "signature" version, like French cut reeds, is more expensive and supposed to be better.
And for the VD Vandoren German mouthpieces I must say you somehow wrongly blamed Vandoren. First, they do produce mouthpieces only for German clarinets, such as D2, D4 and D6. I guess the ones you mentioned are M30D and B40D, the so called versatile mouthpieces. Due to the tenon problem, they actually produce two versions of these mouthpieces for Germany market and the rest of the world and that's why when you buy them in Germany they fit Oehler clarinets very well (Karl Leister used it on his Wulitzer on a Youtube video).
Lee
--------------------------------------------------
I must admit I am getting more confused.
These are THE Nick/Legere German cut reeds for German clarinets. There is NO "M," or "H" designation for a Legere reed.
The other confusing thing is that you use a Vandoren mouthpiece. You may be using the VD Vandoren (ostensibly a "German mouthpiece"), but if not, you are also dealing with a severe mismatch of how a reed is cut vs. the type of facing on which you are using it. Nick/Legere work on real German mouthpiece with real German facings.......period.
The German cut reed (anyone's "REAL" German cut reed) is not only narrower, but more importantly it features a much shorter vamp with a 'chisel' cut (flatter; not as round from side to side).
I know there are those out there using these reeds on French clarinets, but they are NOT maximizing their own native talents. They are allowing the equipment to dictate unnecessary obstacles to their playing.
Finally I must also do a short rant on the Vandoren "German mouthpiece." There is nothing German about it. I had Oehler system Wulitzers and the VD mouthpieces just fell into, and rolled around in the barrel. On a French clarinet you can see that the tenon of the mouthpiece is TOO long. Can't say I know any application for this mouthpiece (besides a doorstop).
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-13 02:29
Dealing with the "International Market System" has been VERY difficult....at best.
Speaking to the Legere issue: I corresponded directly to the company and the adamantly deny making a Signature Version. In fact, they claim that the current Nick/Legere (with all parts of the Nick/Legere logo printed directly to the reed in blue ink) is exactly the same cut, finish and chemical composition to the ones that preceded it (without the Nick designation at all). Comparing two versions that I have on hand.....THIS IS NOT THE CASE !!!!! They are demonstrably different.
But if the Legere Co. makes an outright claim refuting the existence of German Cut signature reeds and I cannot find anyone currently selling them, then it doesn't matter how much I protest. I simply have to concede on this point. I don't know.
The Vandorns may be a similar case. I ordered mine (it was a D2) from an American supplier back in the '80s. Just a year ago I saw one that belonged to a friend of mine and it too featured the tenon that is too long (by 1mm) for a French clarinet. Though I cannot be certain of the manufacture date of his or where he got it.
If you can provide a link to a current retail supplier of Nick/Legere Signature reeds, I will be forever in your debt...........and I promise not to say anything to Guy Leger!!!!
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2016-01-13 02:39
http://www.holzblaeser.com/produkte/b5063/klarinettenblaetter-aus-kunststoff.html?v=1897_5020
See the table on the bottom of the webpage (maybe use Chrome to translate:)).
Surprisingly, they have signature German cut reeds with numeric marks but if you buy them directly from Playnick, they are only "S/M/H" marks.
Lee
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Dealing with the "International Market System" has been VERY
> difficult....at best.
>
>
> Speaking to the Legere issue: I corresponded directly to the
> company and the adamantly deny making a Signature Version. In
> fact, they claim that the current Nick/Legere (with all parts
> of the Nick/Legere logo printed directly to the reed in blue
> ink) is exactly the same cut, finish and chemical composition
> to the ones that preceded it (without the Nick designation at
> all). Comparing two versions that I have on hand.....THIS IS
> NOT THE CASE !!!!! They are demonstrably different.
>
>
> But if the Legere Co. makes an outright claim refuting the
> existence of German Cut signature reeds and I cannot find
> anyone currently selling them, then it doesn't matter how much
> I protest. I simply have to concede on this point. I don't
> know.
>
> The Vandorns may be a similar case. I ordered mine (it was a
> D2) from an American supplier back in the '80s. Just a year
> ago I saw one that belonged to a friend of mine and it too
> featured the tenon that is too long (by 1mm) for a French
> clarinet. Though I cannot be certain of the manufacture date
> of his or where he got it.
>
>
> If you can provide a link to a current retail supplier of
> Nick/Legere Signature reeds, I will be forever in your
> debt...........and I promise not to say anything to Guy
> Leger!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> ..............Paul Aviles
>
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-13 08:04
Thank you so much for your help. I will contact Reichle directly.
What I don't understand about the strengths is this: There are six different specific strengths of the "Signature" listed. So how do just whittle that down to three? Is it 2 and 2 1/4 are soft, 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 are medium, and 3 and 3 1/4 are hard?
Why have have the subcategories?
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2016-01-13 08:41
I guess one possible explanation is that because the demand was not very high, Playnick company initially did not produce reeds with so many different strengths but later they changed somehow.
Anyway, I also will order these reeds from Thomas to have a try.
Lee
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Author: babrinka77
Date: 2016-01-14 12:44
Attachment: 20160113_210936[1].jpg (1959k)
Hello;
Yes, those German signature Legere-Nick esxist but they are only suplied by Nick.
Theorically those reeds can be used in french and german mouthpieces.
This is my little story, i bought a Playnick Solist M mouthpiece, suposed to work with wooden reeds and also with this "Legere german signature reeds", they have 3 strenghts S-M-H, more or less 2 1/2-2 3/4-3, the mp worked well for me with the M strenght. The thing is, after some months using this mp i purchased a Playeasy D2 german mouthpiece for french clarinet, which i play with the Legere german cut 2 3/4 (which is what i am currently playing). One day i decided to try the Legere german signature reed M strenght with the Playeasy D2 model, and it seemed to work well, but soft, so i contacted Nick and asked for some H strenght, they sent me some samples and it worked well.
So now i have the two models, and they both work with the playeasy D2 german for french clarinet.
I dont know which i prefer, in my opinion the Classic cut has a better response, and i prefer the sound in the clarion register, the signature cut doesen't respond so easy, but i prefer the sound in the high register.
i switch between one and another model depending i don't know what :-) , currently i am playing the classic cut 2 3/4, i think the signature model is worth a try.
Post Edited (2016-01-14 12:48)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-14 16:01
Thanks for images!!!!!
This might clear up some confusion for me. I have been told that there "will be" a European Cut that will be available soon here in the US. The reed you display in the image fits the description. It is not technically a purely German cut reed with the broader dimension. Even with a better photo, it might not be easy to see the vamp which is the important part. But Legere made a point of describing a cut that will work with a broader number of different "schools" of thought but is NOT technically a German cut reed.
I hope we haven't messed with any rules of international commerce wit this thread.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: babrinka77
Date: 2016-01-18 16:18
Hello again!
Sorry about the bad quality of the image, i had a problem when uploading it.
Anyway, just a little thing, this "Legere german cut signature reeds" don't need to be purchased directly from PlayNick, they have them also in LA RIP
AMONTI, here is the link: http://www.laripamonti.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=111&products_id=679
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-19 10:50
It is my understanding that this was a short run and it is not a current product with the Legere Co.
Maybe we can start a petition !!!!!!!
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2016-01-19 11:10
Hi Paul,
I just ordered some these signature German cut reeds from Thomas and I will let you know if they are really German cut as Playnick states that they can also be used on Solist M model...
Petition is a good idea!!
Lee
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2016-01-24 13:58
Playnick has a reed, i have been playing for a while, what they call german signature and it's a french clarinet reed. Period. For me the strength M works fine with PlayEasy mouthpieces, and they feel as if i played a rue lepic #4 with a mouthpiece something like 1.05mm/18 mm. I wonder, if legere's european cut is going to be the same reed...
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: babrinka77
Date: 2016-01-27 17:46
Hello again,
I just wanted to answer Paul's question:
Does Forestone make a German cut reed such as the Nick/Legere?
...............Paul Aviles
Yes, they make german cut reeds, both the standard cut and a black bamboo reed. I haven't tried any of them, but would like to know if somehone has...
It's easy to find, just google "forestone german cut reeds", they can be found in diferent websites...
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-27 18:54
Dear babrinka77,
Thank you for the lead on the Forestone German cut reed.
I have tried the Hartmann and don't find any redeeming qualities to them whatsoever. There is no core, substance to the Hartmann reeds.
I look forward to trying the Forestone
THANKS!!!!!!!
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Gene Chieffo
Date: 2016-01-29 16:10
Hello Paul
It's been a while! Anyway, fascinating discussion. I have been dabbling in the legeres of late as well and was finding the classic cut 3.5 to be closest to my liking. Just this week an old classmate of mine who just retired from 30 years as principal clarinet with Taipei is visiting Philly. He came to my house with these Nick Cut German style legere's he uses on an easy play mouthpiece. They play wonderfully on my Vandoren M13 lyre as well. I am very confused now as the strength designation on the reed is "M" and appears to be hand written on with a marker. I have read this thread and see that these can only be purchased from the playnick sight? My friend buys them in a shop in Taiwan where he picks his own out. He gave me two as a gift, but I'm wondering if I get hooked on them, will I be able to get them? Maybe I can just ask my friend to hand pick some for me and send them from Taiwan. I am interested in seeing how they pan out for me. As I have said, at first blush, I LOVE them, but you know how sometimes reality sets in later!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-29 17:36
Hey Gene,
I have corresponded with Legere over the German cut (and there are.....were, several types) and I think that the answer is that that exact reed was made just for Nick Kuckmeier. The Legere explanation to me is that it is no longer produced. However, they will in short order have a reed available to wider markets (here too I guess) called the "European Cut" which should basically be that reed.
If you go to the Holtzblasser (Berlin) website, there is yet another German cut Signature reed (numbered rather than general designation of strength) that Legere originally denied having created. They do say that this reed is also no longer produced.
The easy part is that the German Legeres work GREAT on German mouthpieces. I am currently (and I mean TODAY) playing on a Viotto N1 (marketed by Bas de Jong of the Netherlands) with a Legere German cut #3. The great part about the whole German mouthpiece thing is that I use about 20% of the effort I did on a French mouthpiece and get much better Legere results!!!!!
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Gene Chieffo
Date: 2016-01-29 18:27
Thanks Paul
I have heard about the new European cut coming out this month. Apparently a Ricardo Morales suggested design. I look forward to trying it. They have sent them out to their endorsing artists. I see on the internet that Corrado Giufredi really likes them. On the other hand, a retired Field Band clarinetist friend of mine who is a legere artist tried them and she still prefers the standard or "classic" cut.
As I said, if I really continue to like the Nick cut I can get my friend to send them to me from Taiwan. Helps to have them hand selected as well. I'm going this evening to see my Taiwanese friend perform in a Chamber Music concert with some members of the Philadelphia Orchestra and may get to chat with Ricardo Morales. If so, I'm going to ask him some things about these different cuts and their availablity.
Post Edited (2016-01-29 18:30)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-01-29 18:57
Hey I don't want to make you look like a nerd, but if you could sorta ask exactly what mouthpiece vs what type and strength Legere Ricardo uses that would be great information.
Some how I was never able to achieve the ideal of a weaker reed with the French mouthpiece. Now things are finally falling into place...........with the "wrong mouthpiece!!" At least the Viotto tunes well on our clarinets. I have three Wurlitzer mouthpieces that tune progressively flatter and flatter. I have a custom barrel on order through Allan Segal that is a full 4mm shorter than my shortest barrel to date in order to accommodate the Wurlltzer Reform Boehm M5 in my collection.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Gene Chieffo
Date: 2016-01-29 19:18
Paul
I will look like a nerd, because I AM a nerd. Anyway, I know Ricardo was playing a Backun mouthpiece with a 4 or 4.25 signature cut. I will find out if he has switched to the new European cut. I understand they have a shorter thinner baffle and are wider. By the eye test, that describes the Nick cut my friend gave me so I'm hoping they are fairly similar.
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