 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-01-08 16:18
Matthias Ball, an Alaskan clarinetist living along the Bearing Straits and who frequently gets frostbite of his fingers, has developed a method of playing clarinet using his toes, known as the "Ball Bearing" system.
A little context around your question, please?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-08 16:42
Ball bearings are fitted into the ends of the long key rods instead of them being mounted directly between point screws as normal.
I've only seen this offered by one top level flute company, but never on clarinets.
What make is his clarinet?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-08 18:34
Yep - keep it simple.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-01-08 18:48
Post Edited (2016-01-08 19:07)
Ben,
Have you tried the minibal posts in your repair work? Are they quieter or more reliable?
Post Edited (2016-01-08 19:10)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2016-01-08 20:32
Lohff and Pfeiffer installs them on their deluxe overhauls -- don't they?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-01-08 20:48
I think surgically implanted ball bearings in my fingers would help more.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2016-01-08 23:24
No, I haven't tried them. But I know them from RC modelling and often see them in rotary valve brass.
Certainly saxes could use them as well, as they seem to get more easily out of whack. Never seen a clarinet as rattly as some saxes....
--
Ben
Post Edited (2016-01-09 01:01)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-01-09 01:44
Ball bearing systems are needed, and most essential for not only fast motion, but motion that extends beyond the range of say the 20 - 40 degrees that one has to actuate, say, a Bb/A clarinet's keys.
The spinning of a helicopter blade would be a good example of a situation where ball bearings are key: a part spinning fast, with 360 degree range of motion, where friction REALLY equals noise that's already tremendous.
This isn't to imply that the smoothness of action of ball bearings, as compared to the classic pivot point (e.g. screw in thread) model might not help in large instruments, where keys are not only longer, but pads larger, where anything to aid finger fatigue might be useful.
You can't play fast unless your fingers are light to the touch. And on instruments with larger pads or less than stellar sealing pads, where finger pressure has to be accentuated given that said pressure is applied to a larger surface (pad) area (that may not seal optimally due to a slight state of disrepair,) perhaps ball bearings would help. I would suggest the repair of pad seating though to be the first place to go to address such issues.
People could write volumes on the optimal number and size of ball bearings in a sealed container to optimize movement, not to mention the fluids, pressure, and temperature at which optimum results are achieved. I'd be curious to know just how much more quiet, say, a Bb might be with them, as compared to an instrument in a good state of repair without them.
Then again, when you're working at such a fine line of optimal marginal play, like the OP or Martinez, perhaps even the little stuff can matter.
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Author: Covertheholes
Date: 2016-01-09 08:29
I had the opportunity to try a Prestige bass set up by Lohff and Pfeiffer that included the ball bearings. It is a $3,000+ job on a bass, but was unbelievably quiet and easy to play. Totally worth it if one could afford it. As it was explained to me (I think), the bearings keep constant pressure on the rods in spite of expansion or contraction in the wood of the clarinet, keeping the clarinet always in optimal adjustment regardless of the weather. There is never any play between rods and posts. Maybe there's a spring of some sort behind the bearing? Anyway, I was really impressed.
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Author: ned
Date: 2016-01-09 08:41
''...who frequently gets frostbite of his fingers, has developed a method of playing clarinet using his toes,''
How does he prevent frostbite of his toes?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-01-09 08:49
Some of you could probably also use water cooling of your most frequently played keys. Perhaps that could be accomplished with the water that's always trying to burble your tone holes- nice when waste can become productive.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-09 12:17
What I can deduce from the diagram is one end is screwed solidly to the bearing in one pillar and the other end is on a sliding pin which is fixed to the opposite end of the key rod, so the pin can slide within the bearing as the pillars move with changes in humidity and temperature and the key barrels will remain parallel to the tonehole or joint surface.
http://www.minibal.de/?typ=home_Die_Vorteile_fuer_Ihr_Holzblasinstrument.html
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-01-10 10:02
The Eppelsheim instruments ahve some ball bearing linkages though they don't replace the regular pivots, but just have them at other places because they are built very differently.
I've seen a couple of clarinets with the minibal system.
>> Makes the action faster and more quiet <<
Faster? No. At least not any way that is significant to any human.
More quiet? What kind of pads did the clarinet have? The minibal system clarinets that I've seen also had very soft synthetic pads that are quieter than just about all other pads. The hinges themselves are not quieter.
Post Edited (2016-01-10 11:28)
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2016-01-10 19:04
Some Selmer Paris saxes have a spring loaded bearing surface in the hinge rod that removes excess motion in the mechanism. It operates the same as a regular pivot screw. It is curious that they have not used it for their bass clarinets where key play is much more of an issue. Long sax keys can be fit much tighter than bass clarinet keys since sax bodies are metal.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-01-11 03:21
"Long sax keys can be fit much tighter than bass clarinet keys since sax bodies are metal."
But this is Selmer, so key fit isn't exactly great on their saxes at the best of times and these spring loaded pistons only go a little way to take up the end play.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-01-11 15:47
The problem with the Selmer "Springy Thingy" is that a more accurate fit by slightly lengthening the countersink for the screw head is not possible. In reality it usually sits the same way every time, but there's sometimes a bit of free play between the "Thingy" and the hole it sits in, so there's also side play. So in the end it doesn't really have the same accuracy as a real tapered screw into a fitting hole but does more or less remain in the same place even with a little bit of wear. I imagine it was designed with mainly cost in mind. Other than the fit of the "Thingy" inside the hinge, tolerances can be significantly lower and there's no time spend by a person fitting the key really.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2016-01-11 18:46
I am really tempted to go to an R/C shop and buy some ball linkages and see how they'd fare on a real sax. Replace standard post with a 3mm rod stub, screw ball linkage on, presto.
Now all I'd need is a donor sax. ;-)
--
Ben
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Author: Owen
Date: 2016-01-12 10:23
I just had Lohff and Pfeiffer overhaul my Selmer Privilege with the ball bearing system. Action is much faster now. Significantly less lag time.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-01-12 17:24
"Play" in the keys---or as I'll define it, the difference in distance and time between when a key on a musical instrument like a clarinet or saxophone is actuated, and when the adjoining keys are activated...
e.g. pressing the [lower] right hand 3 finger ring key on a clarinet, and having it transmit into the upper joint's middle finger key....
wouldn't said lag time improvements--if in fact that's what you're referring to--be a product of a good instrument bench adjustment more than--in engineering terms--the different mechanisms for applying torque (spinning around a pivot point,) be it conventionally done in musical instruments by screw, or [facilited] by ball bearings?
I'm not sure what might be meant by you by "faster action," that is otherwise controlled by the instrument, not the fingers, other than maybe the reduction in pressure of a spring's tension.
Again, I'm not anti ball bearings..I just question the cost/benefit ratio of the enhancements they might bring to, say, an A or Bb clarinet, especially when easier moving keys is something that otherwise well adjustment instruments can achieve by relaxing spring tension.
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