 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Emmy soccer
Date: 2015-12-22 23:07
Hello everyone! I'm 14 years old and my dad ordered a lazarro 150-BK-S Ebonite standard color clarinet. I looked online to find some reviews and opinions on lazarro clarinets but most are pretty outdated. I found some stuff about the saxophones being okay for beginners so I'm just wondering if the same thing applies to their clarinets as well.
Thanks
-Yes, I am aware that they might be chinese knock offs, but they do have a website so maybe they changed? http://lazarromusic.com/
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-12-22 23:43
Looking at the price points ($400 US dollars) it is conceivable that it may be a decent clarinet. I don't know anything about them and I don't want to suggest any sort of opinion one way or the other. The price is realistic for a "working clarinet" as opposed to some of those $30 clarinets we recently discussed on this Board.
I still would take that $400 and find a well overhauled, used Vito that I KNOW is a good clarinet.
Don't let the cute colors distract you from the fact you want a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT that SOUNDS good (if it looks cool too, that's a bonus).
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: knotty
Date: 2015-12-22 23:59
In searching I keep getting a clarinet with that model number as costing $79.
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: Emmy soccer
Date: 2015-12-23 00:46
Yeah, my dad bought it on amazon for 79$, I hope that doesn't change the quality of the instrument lol. We're pretty poor so 400 would be way too expensive.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2015-12-23 02:10
Emmy -- most of us would suggest a Bundy clarinet, or another beginner clarinet that you can trust and find on Craigslist or eBay over the Lazarro.
If you can return it, a used Bundy (or other brand) will play more reliably. BUT you have to get started somewhere -- my concern for you (as a teacher) is that you hard work may undercut by an instrument that is not built reliably.
Are you in a band program? Can your band director play test it for you?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-23 03:00
This does sadden me as I bet there are hundreds if not thousands of perfectly serviceable Bundy/Buescher, Vito/Normandy, Artley/Armstrong, Yamaha 20/200 series, Evette/Buffet B12, etc. clarinets that have all been abandoned as they're deemed uneconomical to repair (due to repair costs being nearly as much as new ones) which could easily be restored and put back into beginners hands instead of the only affordable option to some being buying a cheap Chinese clarinet. If there was a programme in place with good funding to be able to pay repairers to restore these instruments and then rent them out or sell them for a far more realistic price to anyone on a tight budget, that would give any enthusiastic beginners a much better start with a much more reliable clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2015-12-23 04:05)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-12-23 03:27
Yes Chris- the problem is that even those of us with some idea what we are looking for would be hard pressed to buy something under $100 off eBay or Craigslist (or a classified ad, for that matter- do they still do those?) and hand over to a beginner with no inspection, and trust the outcome. The low cost examples are low cost because they ARE an unknown. That is- the refurbed examples from sellers with fine feedback etc are not that cheap.
I also cry to see $1000 spent on mediocre new student clarinets at big or small music stores, though I understand the economics of keeping such a place open for business. Because I understand how much clarinet $1000 can really buy. How about a new RCP-576BC? and there are other good options.
Would you rather a new student start on a cruddy but probably playable cheapo new clarinet, or a perhaps unplayable old "better" clarinet that will likely not get the needed repairs? Not a good choice I know.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2015-12-23 03:31)
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Author: Emmy soccer
Date: 2015-12-23 03:28
Is there some kind of test I can do to see if the clarinet works well before I decide wether or not to return it? And yeah Chris that would be awesome, it would be great to have affordable clarinets that are good. My dad said he couldn't tell what was good because the only things on Amazon were either super expensive yamahas and selmers or a bunch of Lazarros and mendinis under 100 bucks. Nothing good within a 200 dollar price range apparently :(. But yeah, also wondering what makes a good clarinet good and a bad clarinet bad.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2015-12-23 03:40
Have a clarinetist try the instrument. If you can't find one of them, ask a band director. You need some experienced help.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-12-23 04:13
Emmy soccer -
Run away.
Off-brands are almost all dreadful. You can get a used Bundy or even the slightly better Vito for as little as $35. At that price, it will need new pads and basic adjustments, which will cost around $200.
There is simply nothing usable for less. I've never seen a Lazarro, but I can pretty much guarantee it will get in your way and keep you from learning how to play at all.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-12-23 08:29
A good clarinet will represent pitch properly. This doesn't just refer to matching with another instrument (really important), but it also means being consistent from note to note. For example, your standard diatonic scale (do, re, me....etc.) is comprised to two whole steps, a half step, three whole steps and a final half step. Now, if you have a poorly made instrument where that third note is note quite a whole step away from the second note - let's say it's too high. That means the relationship to the fourth note is too close. That also affects the octave, and so on. And that's just one note.
Cheap instruments are not created with enough accuracy to represent music properly, which is why professional musicians don't use them (I think EVERYONE can appreciate a good bargain, but something that is unusable is NOT a bargain).
Then you have the issue of mechanical soundness. Inferior parts don't just break and have to be replaced, they don't function properly to begin with. I use the example of springs (the things that make keys stay down if they are supposed to be down .....or the other way around). I tried adjusting a spring on a bargain brand because it did not move the key smoothly enough. Bending the spring should enable you to make it MORE springy or less springy. In this case the spring just lost all its ability to "spring" at all, eventually breaking. I had to replace it with a real spring from another clarinet (a real clarinet).
That's just one of many MANY issues I could talk about.
You do NOT want to frustrate a beginner with even MORE barriers to learning than just the standard technical issues that must be learned.
I don't like the notion of absolutes but I think it is safe to say that you cannot find a reasonable clarinet for under $400 (unless you really know what you are doing and can do repair yourself).
If that doesn't sound reasonable to you, pick a different hobby.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-23 13:25
Attachment: selmerctfullboehm.jpg (330k)
One hobby I can suggest is clarinet repair - buy an older student model and learn to repad it, recork the keys and regulate it. You'll then have two hobbies in one, both playing and repairing clarinets. If you can repair your own clarinets, the only cost to you is finding a good quality instrument in desperate need of repair and the parts and tools to do the job.
That's how I started on clarinet - when I was 14 I bought an old B&H Series 2-20 clarinet for $7.75, then bought a set of pads, some sheet cork, some glue and a set of screwdrivers and got it into a reasonably good playable condition.
My current clarinet is an eBay find which was in a really bad state with the wood all dried out and the unplated keywork all tarnished, but I was looking for that exact instrument and due to its condition, no-one else bid on it, so I got it at a good price.
Here's a closeup of the keywork as it was when I got it so you've got an idea how bad it was:
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galleryclar/Keywork/FB/05.jpg
Now it's my main clarinet which I went to town on fully rebuilding it to as high a standard as I can muster. See attachment for what it looks like now.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-12-25 06:20
Emmy, please tell your dad that I am so impressed that he got you a clarinet for xmas- my mother scrimped and saved to buy me a clarinet for xmas in 1980 and it was the most awesome present EVER. She worked a part time job to get money to buy me a Buescher Aristocrat student clarinet and 30 something years later I had the chance to try my old clarinet (years past it was sold to a family friend)- and was very pleased to discover it was still quite playable (I am now a professional clarinet player in NZ).
I agree with Chris and with others who have suggested buying a quality instrument 2nd hand and if necessary having it repaired etc, however I DO understand that this would have been difficult from your dad's point of view- good instruments DO go for very low prices, but they also sometimes go for higher prices...
Your dad has tried to do his best, and you will have to make a decision about what to do- there is some good advice above. I can say that most of the cheapest clarinets on ebay will need some attention from a repairman, and if not you will be very lucky. However, this can be money well spent- but spending money on fixing the chinese clarinet (in my experience, if it plays well to start off, it will need repairs soon) is often a very slippery slope....
Family arriving for xmas now so must log off....
sorry not to be too helpful, but I wanted to give your dad a big thumbs up for trying to sort you out with a clarinet!
donald
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-25 08:03
Attachment: buescher-aristocrat 001.JPG (165k)
I've just rebuilt a Buescher Aristocrat belonging to an Australian player who's had this clarinet in his family since the '70s, so it has a lot of sentimental value to him and he could justify spending the money on getting it completely overhauled. See attachment.
I went to town on doing it up with mostly cork and leather pads as I would normally do on a pro level clarinet, so I hope he's pleased with the results. It should be really responsive now as cork pads and plastic instruments are made for each other for a perfect seal and longevity.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2015-12-26 12:18
Nice work on the Selmer and Buescher, Chris. I likewise had cork and leather pads installed on my synthetic-bodied B&H 1-10, and it was money very well spent. Such luxury!
Back on topic, though. Keep an eye open at garage sales, pawn shops, and second hand stores for good used clarinets from reputable brands. Not long ago I scored a very nice Bundy 1400 at a Las Vegas pawn shop for $35 and it played very well in as-found condition. I ended up having the E/B key sweged, one pad replaced, and a couple of crumbling bumper corks redone, and the Bundy ended up costing me about $80 total for a near-mint instrument with absolutely no issues. And, yes, I would resell it at cost to a student needing a decent low-cost instrument.
I've passed up many nearly-new Artley 17S clarinets in the $25-$40 range at flea markets that needed only a tenon cork replacement or two to be put back into service. Perhaps I should start picking them up for all the students who come on the BBoard looking for something decent for around $100...
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