 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-13 22:52
Have Buffet E11 Bb. Is there any noticeable advantage to replacing the OEM barrel? I have seen many players use a barrel that has a bulge at the joint.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-12-14 00:54
The E11 is the first level of intermediate clarinet, I honestly don't think changing the barrel on this clarinet would make any significant difference. Better to put the money towards a clarinet upgrade. Now a good mouthpiece is a definite yes.
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2015-12-14 01:28
A Fobes barrel and bell extension might be what you're looking for.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-12-14 19:47
A good mouthpiece will make your E11 play much better. A good barrel will also improve things considerably.
The importance of equipment decreases the further it is from you. In order of importance, what creates a good tone is your mind, your tongue and palate, your lips, the reed, the mouthpiece, the barrel, the upper joint, the lower joint and the bell (though a properly designed bell can have a big effect).
A well-made mouthpiece can transform even a beginner-level clarinet, particularly when combined with a barrel matched to it and the lower joints. I have put my hand-made-for-me Opperman mouthpiece and barrel on a plastic Vito clarinet, and even I have had difficulty telling the difference between it any my hand-tweaked R13. Certainly none of the listeners could tell any difference. The same with a Bundy.
That's why IMHO those looking for a step-up clarinet should go first for a top quality mouthpiece and barrel, which will cost the same have a much bigger effect.
Therefore, get a good mouthpiece and find a high-quality barrel that works with it. For the barrel, all that matters is the shape of the bore. IMHO, the effect of changing the outside profile is due solely to the placebo effect.
Far better players than I (e.g., Ricardo Morales) discern an improvement with "fat boy" barrels, but that's beyond my ability to detect, and certainly the addition of one to an entry-level clarinet played by an intermediate player will make no real-world difference. After all, Robert Marcellus got results none of us can approach on (well-tweaked) R13s.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-14 19:55
Have the E11, got a Vandoren 88 Lyre 13 MPC, and it sounded better than original MPC. Is there a recommendation for possible barrel types to consider?
When I got MPC I didnt know any procedure so went to store, took 4 popular ones into a room, and compared to original. Bought the one that sounded best. If try barrel is there a correct procedure to follow or just try a few and select according to how I think it compares? Or maybe I should ask sales person to listen?
Post Edited (2015-12-14 21:28)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-12-14 23:35
Ken Shaw wrote:
> The importance of equipment decreases the further it is from
> you. In order of importance, what creates a good tone is your
> mind, your tongue and palate, your lips, the reed, the
> mouthpiece, the barrel, the upper joint, the lower joint and
> the bell (though a properly designed bell can have a big
> effect).
Ken, do you really feel that the barrel makes more of a difference in the setup's ease of play than the clarinet body itself?
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-12-14 23:38
If you're going to buy a barrel, sit down with the ones you're trying and a tuner. Play using each barrel with your eye on the tuner. The one you pick ought to be the one that sounds and responds best (to you) and is most in tune over the whole scale (not just the tuning note).
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-12-15 07:09
Karl -
Yes. A lot. I first got a mouthpiece from Kal Opperman, which was amazing. He then suggested that matching a barrel to it could make an improvement.
That was putting it mildly. I could barely believe difference to begin with, and he made half a dozen more tiny bore tweaks that made my setup nearly unrecognizable to play.
Back then (1970 or so), he charged $35 for a mouthpiece or a barrel.
Eventually he set up a new R13 for me, which was much better yet. However, nothing matched the transformations made by the mouthpiece and then the barrel on my old R13.
Kal made his barrels with an inverse taper, but he also put in a wasp-waist, with the narrow part (only a few thousandths of an inch) about 2/3 of the way down. He didn't care about whether the bore was shiny -- only how it played.
Almost all of his barrels were grenadilla, though later he experimented with other woods. He said the best barrel he ever made was of oak, but it warped so fast he had to re-ream it up several times a day. All had the standard outer profile. I don't think the fat-boy profile had been invented yet, and I think he would have said unprintable things about the idea that the outside shape would have made any difference. The best barrel I have from him is in cocus-wood, but I think it's good because of the bore, not the wood.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-12-15 07:34
Ken Shaw wrote:
> Kal made his barrels with an inverse taper, but he also put in
> a wasp-waist, with the narrow part (only a few thousandths of
> an inch) about 2/3 of the way down.
Interesting. Moennig's barrels (the ones he hand reamed) were also, as you describe it, wasp-waisted. The reason, I'm told, was that he couldn't ream a continuous taper all the way down from top to bottom with a hand reamer. So he reamed the top part with one reamer and then the bottom part with a smaller one. (I wasn't aware enough back then to have asked him about it directly.) Apparently, some modern Moennig-style (reverse taper) barrels are made with continuous tapers and some are made with the wasp waist to emulate the ones Moennig did by hand.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-12-15 07:44
Ken Shaw wrote:
> Yes. A lot. I first got a mouthpiece from Kal Opperman, which
> was amazing. He then suggested that matching a barrel to it
> could make an improvement.
>
> That was putting it mildly. I could barely believe difference
I'll take your word that the difference was that great. But your experience doesn't convince me that a barrel will make more of a difference than *changing* the instrument design or, especially, quality - i.e. it's still hard to believe that changing from an R13 to, say, a Selmer Recital or, more to the point here, an E11 to an R13 or Tosca or Prestige will produce less difference than a barrel, however amazing the barrel is. But I agree that the same clarinet can feel very different with a different barrel. And I have a drawer full of barrels to prove it.
Karl
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Author: gwie
Date: 2015-12-15 08:02
My experience is in getting E11 A clarinets, since they're so much cheaper than the pro-level options. I have lots of students who do want to play in orchestra, but are not interested in pursuing professional careers and don't need to throw thousands of dollars down on something they aren't going to play that frequently. The Germany-made E11 A clarinet, with anything from Buffet, Backun, Fobes, Behn, Muncy, etc. is a massive improvement over the stock equipment.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2015-12-15 09:54
I agree with Kens hierarchy of equipment and their effects.
I think of it this way....
Mouthpiece = comfort (ease of playing) and biggest impact on sound.
Barrel = big effect on tuning and tone
Clarinet body = tuning relative from note to note
Bell = tone of long notes and tuning of such.
Essentially, I can get a VERY similar sound that I get from my horns from anything else as long as I use my mouthpiece and barrel. Bundy, Amati, Vito, whatever. But the tuning from note to note and between twelfths is where I think the clarinet body makes the biggest difference. On a studen horn, you'll fight more for intonation than sometimes it's worth. But you can make those notes sound very pretty with a good mouthpiece/barrel.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2015-12-15 09:55)
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Author: Una
Date: 2015-12-16 19:49
For what it's worth, imho, if you are a relatively newcomer to the clarinet, barrels and other paraphernalia will make little difference to you. Mouthpieces and having your clarinet set up properly will help or hinder your progress more than barrels. Concentrate on learning the clarinet and music. Once you "get" the subtleties of the instrument, try playing around with barrels and bells and different clarinets.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2015-12-16 19:59
E11's have 64.5 mm barrels. A standard R13 barrel is 66.0 mm.
E11's are pitched at a-442 due to the short barrel. The short barrel helps beginning students play up to pitch.
Advanced players will be very sharp on the stock E11 barrel.
Replacing it with a 66 mm barrel brings you back down to a-440.
Your mileage will vary depending on your mouthpiece / reed combination.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-18 19:41
When I was taking lessons my teacher said I was playing flat on my student clarinet and said I needed a shorter barrel. Maybe a shorter barrel is better for me? I havent really tested my notes with a tuner. when I do they seem to vary in pitch a little anyway so I began working on other things. My mouthpiece is a Lyre M13 88. Does this match or mismatch the OEM barrel of the E11?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-12-18 21:01
BGBG -
It's time to buy a tuner. The Korg is under $15 and is perfectly good. For a few bucks more, you can get a combined tuner and metronome. It will answer your questions quickly and easily, while we on the board can only guess.
Ken Shaw
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