 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2015-12-14 00:01
Just curious, does any company/manufacturer offer a clarinet mouthpiece made out of acetal, Delrin or nylon? I know some are making barrels out of these materials and I've seen Delrin sax mouthpieces but never any clarinet mouthpieces. It seems like an ideal material aside from the fact that applying a facing to an Acetal mouthpiece might be difficult considering how hard the material is to work with, not to mention it would be much harder on tools that HR.
Is there any other practical reason why Delrin clarinet mouthpieces do not yet exist?
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2015-12-14 01:48
Acetyl is not hard on tools. It is easy to machine. It doesn't glue well so it might be hard to put a tenon cork on and have it last.
Steve Ocone
Post Edited (2015-12-14 16:48)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-12-15 05:08
I must confess my ignorance. I do not know what acetal is. Can you give some examples of common items usually made of acetal?
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-15 09:49
Delrin is used to make some instruments or top joints from - Stephen Fox offers clarinets made from it and Howarth use it for synthetic top joints on some of their oboes. Feels like cutting into wax when machining it.
I can't see any reason it's not used for making mouthpieces as acrylic and other plastics and resins are already being used such as ABS and Bakelite.
I made a single reed mouthpiece for an oboe/cor anglais from narrow diameter delrin rod which works reasonably well, but was only an experiment.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-12-15 11:42
>> Can you give some examples of common items usually made of acetal? <<
Common items are usually not made of it because it's expensive, but you can look at the Wikipedia page for many examples of things that are made from it.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-12-15 14:14
So my ignorance permeates the pages of Wikipedia as well. I find references such as this:
"The plastic known as acetal is a polyacetal of formaldehyde."
or
"Examples of acetals[edit]
Dimethoxymethane, a solvent, also known as formal
Dioxolane
Metaldehyde
Paraldehyde
1,3,5-Trioxane"
That clears it up for me.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: cearnsh
Date: 2015-12-15 16:03
Well, it's going to be tricky to explain without giving a full course in organic chemistry, but in (relatively) simple terms an acetal is a compound where a carbon atom has two single bonds to oxygen atoms and two single bonds to either carbon or hydrogen atoms.
For a good discussion of acetal the plastic (which is a polymer consisting of repeating acetal units), have a look at this Wikipedia page. It shows the long chain of alternating oxygen atoms and carbon atoms (with two hydrogen atoms in this case) rather well and has a useful discussion of its properties.
Chris
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-12-15 19:10
Well..........I saw the "hard plastic" key chains."
So I'll go with that.
I speak from experience with acrylic mouthpieces. There is a tendency for the sound to be brighter, with a tiny bit of hollowness in it. To negate this character, ESM has added metal, either as a single band at the bottom of the tenon, a complete metal tenon, and or, metal flings scattered throughout the material.
Wurlitzer and ESM already make (and have for a very long time) mouthpieces out of acrylic.
I would assume that other hard plastics (despite how the chains of molecules line up) would behave similarly.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2015-12-28 22:46
I have refaced several sax mouthpieces made from Delrin. Mostly Saxscapes and Runyons. I have played on them for a while too.
The material only comes in black and white. It is a cousin of Teflon and is an easy material to work with. It feels lighter than hard rubber to me in the embouchure.
I thought it was a brighter material than metal. But I compared a metal Bari sax mouthpiece with a Delrin one and I could not hear a difference in the recordings. I had reworked both to the same dimensions.
The only advantage I can tell is that Delrin can take a hit and bounce back without chipping or bending. Other than that it is the ergonomics of feel in the embouchure.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
Post Edited (2015-12-29 06:45)
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Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2015-12-29 00:00
I have two Behn mouthpieces, one in Delrin and one in Behn's proprietary hard rubber. The hard rubber piece is a duplicate by Brad of the Delrin mouthpiece. The Delrin mouthpiece weighs 32 grams, the hard rubber one weighs 27 grams.
With the same reed, their sounds are indistinguishable (to me, recorded on my little Zoom H2).
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2015-12-29 00:23
Dan,
If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the Delrin mouthpiece? I tried searching on Brad Behn's website but did not see them listed. Are they special order?
I'm more interested in a Delrin mouthpiece for durability as opposed to its acoustic properties. The idea of a mouthpiece that doesn't wear with use that is resistant to chipping interests me.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2015-12-29 00:42
To find the Delrin mouthpiece listed on his website, look at the 0 degree option in his Signature collection. I believe, though, that he is out of these mouthpieces and I have the impression that perhaps he is not going to make more of them.
Addendum: he doesn't use the word Delrin on the website, rather something like "modern rod stock material". But the word Delrin is etched on the mouthpiece.
Post Edited (2015-12-29 00:46)
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