 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2015-12-10 05:56
Two of the three joint corks on my new R13 have come off within the past month. I spoke with Sayre Woodwinds earlier today. I asked if too much cork grease could cause this problem and was told that he's heard it possibly could. Also, Mr. Sayre told me he recommends using cork grease only if it's feeling like the joint is too tight rather than on a regular basis.
What ideas do you have regarding this issue?
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2015-12-10 06:02
On a regular basis but not every time and not really on a schedule. Ya just know... If you feel like you are gripping harder to assemble the instrument, time to grease.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-12-10 06:09
Grease a cork when the joint is not going together easily.
I tend to want my barrel to slide onto the top joint and my mouthpiece to slide into the barrel more easily than I need for the middle joint and the bell
so I wind up greasing the top tenon and mouthpiece tenon corks much more often than the other two.
Karl
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2015-12-10 07:06
I grease when I feel the joints binding during assembly, maybe every 5 - 6 uses. Maybe I'm alone in this belief, but I suspect any rotational bind in the joints hampers normal vibration of the instrument. I think it sounds better when it goes together smoothly. You don't want joints loose, but avoid "stick" friction. Having said that, I grease minimally, just a trace to allow smooth assembly. Any build up of grease indicates too much, which I don't know what harm it does, but I don't want it.
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-12-10 10:32
Using a higher quality cork grease is helpful as well. Corks need greasing less often, and a good quality grease is less likely to contribute to corks peeling off prematurely. Corks should last for years.
Which cork grease? That's a matter of debate. A search here will reveal some of it. I've been using the Ultramax for the past year. So far so good - definitely better than anything commonly available at the average music store. Doctor's All Natural didn't do well for me, but many people like it.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-12-10 11:01
Grease very lightly when the joints begin to show resistance when you assemble them. Certainly not every time. Mineral-based cork grease can cause degradation of some adhesives, and if your corks are attached with something like Quickgrip or any other hydrocarbon based adhesive then it could happen to you.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-10 11:42
Use a good quality thick or heavy cork grease and apply a light coating of it regularly.
I've got an set of T13 Prestiges on my bench right now (the Bb has split after five years) and the lower joint tenon cork on the A has come off as the bells remain on while in the case which is a bad idea.
The tenon corks on most Buffets I see will peel off very easily - some are just held on by luck so it seems. I machine down the grooves or waves in the tenon slot so I can glue a new cork on with full contact of the wood rather than it just making contact with the peaks of the grooved or wavy tenon slot - again another bad idea that Buffet are still doing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2015-12-10 12:02
When using Dr Slick you have to grease every time but corks last a lot longer due to the lack of petroleum in the product.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-12-10 17:03
The best cork "grease" to use is that white stuff that comes in a "chapstick" like container. It doesn't goo up the inside of you clarinet case AND most importantly, it doesn't soak down into the glued surface of the cork and cause the glue to degrade (like acetone on super glue or WD40 on every other glue). The Vandoren version is pretty good. Many music stores have a version with their name on it (I think those are made by Selmer?).
I usually wind up putting a quick light coat (a quick spin around the tenon) once every other day. If I wait three days or more (it happens), just as said above, I feel the grippiness and go ahead and apply then.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-10 18:05
I beg to differ - the WORST kind of cork grease is the white 'Chap-Stick' type as it's really thin after it's applied, soaks through the cork and destroys the adhesive bonding the cork to the tenon slot as well as contaminates the tenon slot itself, so it ends up being a clean-up not far off the scale of the Exxon Valdez (or Amoco Cadiz) disaster.
The Doctor's Products cork grease in a similar dispenser is much better as it's far thicker and doesn't soak into the cork like cheap cork grease bunged in with most new instruments.
As far as synthetic cork grease goes, my favourite is La Tromba which is like axle grease. That's the consistency you ideally want cork grease to be instead of thin like Vaseline.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-12-10 19:01
Paul Aviles wrote:
> The best cork "grease" to use is that white stuff that comes in
> a "chapstick" like container.
I'll let others argue about the grease itself. My problem with the "'chapstick' like container" is that at some point the grease stops coming up when you turn the bottom. The screw action ends before you reach the bottom of the column of grease. I end up having to use first a fingernail and later a Popsicle stick to scoop out the last bit or let it go to waste. It isn't that expensive, but I hate to throw that last eighth of an inch in the trash.
Karl
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-12-10 21:23
Grease with a top quality grease (e.g. Doctor's Product) EVERY time you assemble joints but only use a minute amount.
I prefer the tubs to the tubes as it makes the user put it on with the finger - as one should - and rub well in. Lipstick tubes get put on like lipstick aand then 90% or more gets scraped off as the socket is put over the tenon.
I've been doing this for 60 years and I get from 15 to 25 years out of all my tenon corks treated this way.
25 years of repair experience has taught me that the vast majority of teachers and players have no real idea of how to look after their corks (and sadly much else about their instruments).
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2015-12-10 21:24
My preference is synthetic Ultimax Cork lubricant ( bought from Tom Ridenour) every other week or as needed.
AAAClarinet
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-12-10 23:15
Gosh guys I have never had a tenon cork just pop off. Of course I've seen it happen to others.
Years ago Selmer made a clear syrupy type that was like really thick motor oil. More than one tech who I spoke to mentioned the vagaries of breaking down the cork glue associated with this one. So far (forty years and counting) I am having good luck with the white stuff.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2015-12-11 00:16
I've only ever used Dr. Slick so I guess I can assume the grease is NOT what's causing the glue to fail???
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2015-12-11 00:20
Norman...you may have hit the nail on the head. After reading the various comments, I'm thinking the problem is in how much I apply rather than what I'm using. I'm at the bottom of my tube of Dr. Slick and will re-order the tub so I can better control how much I'm putting on.
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2015-12-11 00:22
Paul...maybe, as implied above, it has a whole lot to do with the way Buffet glues their corks rather than with the way we treat them!
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2015-12-11 01:01
Long ago I used to order pint jars of cork grease from Erik Brand repair products. All it really was made of was rendered sheep fat, otherwise known as "tallow." It worked great, but after a year-or-so would go rancid. Over 50 years of clarinetting, never lost a tenon cork yet. Currently - original tenon corks on most horns, so from a 1959 Leblanc, a 1969 Buffet, and there-on, a daily-use amount of cork grease (currently the Vandoren "chap-stick" style) works fine for me!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-11 01:15
My Yamaha 62 bari sax is just over 25 years old now and still has its original crook cork which fits Yamaha, Selmer, Yanagisawa, Dukoff and Lawton mouthpieces perfectly (by perfectly I mean there's still plenty of resistance when putting them on).
I've used La Tromba cork grease in all that time and the cork is still supple. The only mouthpieces that don't fit are Berg Larsen due to them having a wide diameter shank, but I don't use them anyway - it's Lawtons all the way for me.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2015-12-11 02:17
Face it, woodwind instruments are in a never-ending state of deterioration once they leave your technician's bench. Your only defence is good and diligent maintenance.
I use Doctor's Products grease on my beloved Backun, Ridenour, and B&H clarinets.
My studio loaners are all equipped with tubes of Leblanc Ultra cork grease. It's softer and much slicker than standard white cork grease. So far, no issues noted with Leblanc Ultra.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-12-11 03:02
KenJarczyk wrote:
> Long ago I used to order pint jars of cork grease from Erik
> Brand repair products. All it really was made of was rendered
> sheep fat, otherwise known as "tallow."
Yeah, Gigliotti used it when I studied with him , so of course all of his students used it, too. He would dole a scoop of it into whatever container we had - a can lasted a long time (I never had enough of it at once to last to the point of rancidity). I haven't been able to find it anywhere, though.
Karl
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Author: TomA ★2017
Date: 2015-12-11 05:46
I saw the suggestion here on the board to use lanolin instead cork grease. I have been doing that ever since, with very good results.
A little goes a long way. Once a week is more than enough for me.
Tom
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2015-12-11 16:16
I used Vandoren Cork Grease, and now the D'Addario brand.
Having a hard Cork Grease keeps it from smearing a lot - there are many cheap "soft" squishy cork greases that those are to be avoided.
Here's my opinion and what I do asto Cork Grease.
I grease it each and every time I assemble the Clarinet. Reason is - you must, MUST keep the Cork hydrated with the grease to keep it supple, and for it to re-expand back from being compressed. I say to my students "you are strong, and the cork is weak", meaning that just because it is not difficult to assemble without Cork Grease every time, doesn't mean that the cork is not suffering.
My Corks last for years.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-12-11 17:35
Gee, with all the the comments at the ends of these messages that say "my corks last [nearly forever]" with X, Y or Z grease, maybe what we're really showing isn't which grease is better but how really durable and resilient good cork is no matter how it's treated. 
Karl
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2015-12-11 19:03
Or how well the clarinet manufacturer glues them on in the first place. Out of sheer laziness, I put my clarinet together 2 days ago, didn't practice, finally practiced last night, took it apart to put it away and noticed that the aforementioned cork was glued back in place. We'll see how long this lasts!
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2015-12-11 21:04
That's funny, Roxann! I recently had a guitar whose very name makes me shudder in for a string. I picked it up and the gear fell off from behind because there was no screw. I turned it over and one of the other tuning machines was also missing a screw but the gear turned purely because it was stuck on there.
Barb
Post Edited (2015-12-11 21:57)
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