 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: knotty
Date: 2015-12-05 21:26
I've tried most reed brands now but a question remains about Mitchell Lurie's, they always seem to be about a full strength or more lower. ie: a 4 ML plays like another brand 3 and so on. Has anyone else noticed this?
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-05 23:10
I think I saw that on a Clarinet Mentor website or video once.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-12-06 00:01
I'm not sure they're any different in strength from the same number in Rico or Rico Royals. They do run softer than the same number in Vandorens and the other "premium" brands. That's one reason why they started selling a #5-1/2. I don't know if they still do.
Karl
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Author: knotty
Date: 2015-12-06 01:01
Thanks BG I'll take a look on Michelle's site. Karl I hadn't considered that comparison, I was comparing the ML's to reeds in the V12, V21, class.
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2015-12-06 02:24
They're a Rico Reed. Plain & simple.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Mirko996
Date: 2015-12-06 02:48
I have a Mitchel Lurie Reeds streght 2 1/2 and I use it on my mouthpiece, Pomarico One Star and are very softly, ideal for jazz and for classical, you can quietly reach the C7 ascending and descending without a lot of armonic problem, especially in G7 and A7 and B7 or viceversa... is very nice those reeds but lose elasticity very quickly... Not like Lavoz reeds, these last slightly more.
If you have the possibility to buy it then do it I have a pack of mitchel lurie for 3 months and the difference is very abissal
Post Edited (2015-12-06 02:53)
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-06 02:55
Mine are Rico Mitchell Lurie Premium 2.5 in a 5 pack purchased 6-5-15 and they have been played 8 times for less than 10 minutes. Seem good to me. I forgt exactly which Michelle video this was but if I find it i will post. Not a whole lot about it- just explained how there might be basic beginner reeds, more advanced reeds, and reeds a professional might choose. Having played on the least costly Rico 2, 2.5, and 3, I thought I would try what was referred to as a more advanced one. Also have some D'Addario Reserve Classic 2.5. I guess different companies buy other companies and may or may not revise them so I feel it is difficult to tell by name alone. My opinion. I prefer to try or take advice of someone who has. I think Rico makes a Reserve and also D'Addario. Confusing.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2015-12-06 03:16
Great question and I hope to make the answer as simple as I can.
I posted a few days ago that I was in charge of the Lurie reeds at Rico for 15 years until I left in the late 1990's. When I left, Rico was selling about 1 1/2 million Mitchell Lurie reeds a year, so with great confidence I can give you a very accurate answer.
Working directly with Mitchell the reeds were designed for the advanced high school and college players, not for the top symphony pro's and not for the beginners. The cut of the reeds had more wood in the spine of the reeds compared to the Rico and Rico Royal line. But not as much as the Vandoren reeds.
Due to Rico using pesticides I can't take a chance and play test any of the Mitchell Lurie reeds and give everyone that needed answer.
So yes the reeds should play lighter than Vandoren, but heavier than the Rico's. At that time only selected choice cane was used from the Var region of France. However, since Mitchell has passed on and I'm no longer there the cane could be coming from anywhere, such as Argentina to parts of California. This cane isn't as good and the quality will suffer; if Rico is using non Var cane.
One of the ways that the reeds suffer from poor quality cane is when the reeds get wet the strengths drop too much. For example a good reed should old its strength, such as a 4 strength reed should play like a 4. But if the cane isn't very good, the fibers are weak, the cell structure is weak nothing can be done to correct this problem. So if the reed is weak that 4 strength reed could drop down to a 3 strength or even lower.
Bottom line here is the Mitchell Lurie reeds should play true to their strength. If they aren't holding up it's most likely stinky cane. Hope this very short history of the Mitchell Lurie reeds helps.
If anyone is interested Mitchell used 3 1/2 strength reeds, R13 clarinets and his own mouthpiece brand made by Pomorico.
One of the hardest moves I had to make was telling Mitchell I was leaving Rico. He was such a great man. Thankfully we stayed in touch after leaving until about 3 weeks before his passing of a stroke.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2015-12-06 03:33)
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-06 03:34
I heard about the Mitchell Lurie reeds on Michelle Anderson Clarinet Mentors You Tube video named "What Clarinet reed Should You Play". I dont have the URL but searching You Tube should find it.
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Author: knotty
Date: 2015-12-06 05:37
Thanks all, and BG, I've had Michelle's site bookmarked from a while ago. Bob Bernardo, very enlightening post, that clears it up. I've been playing Vandoren V12, V21, and Lepic, for a little while now but couple weeks ago I thought I'd try my old Luries and was surprised how weak even #4 Luries felt, like a 3 Vandoren or less. So, just out of curiosity, I got a box of five #4.5's. Still weaker compared to even a 3.5 Vandoren or Gonzalez.
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2015-12-06 06:26
Hi Knotty, the Vandoren reeds you talked about above are really for the top end pro's as they are much thicker blanks and more meat in the cut of the reeds. The Steuer reeds are also like this and perhaps are even a shade more thick in comparison, pushing close to 1/32".
For example if you measure the thickness of these reeds by the bark area they are around .0125" thick. The Mitchell Lurie reeds are only around 0.105" or so. This is an example of why the Lurie reeds sound so weak. There's simply not enough wood to make a V12 reed.
I totally agree with you that the Mitchell Lurie reeds are weaker.
I've repeated this before. I was the designer of the Grand Concert reeds about 18 years ago. At that time there were serious talks about making a thick Mitchell Lurie reed, but instead Rico decided on to call the reeds the Grand Concert reeds.
Long story short top symphony pro's probably wouldn't be too happy playing on the Mitchell Lurie reeds, but at the same time school kids can't handle these heavy Vandoren reeds, so there's kind of a perfect place for both types of reeds. I'm sure Rico sells a lot more of the Mitchell Lurie reeds compared to the Vandoren V12, 21, and Lepic reeds combined, simply because there are so many more students compared to these top pro's that demand thick reeds.
Here's a fun fact to think about. The Mitchell Lurie reeds are actually cut twice for excellence using 2 diamonds. You can read about this in an earlier post from a few days ago. This equals more labor! Double the time to cut a Mitchell Lurie reed. Yet the Grand Concert reeds are cut once and cost a lot more! It's still pretty much the same piece of cane! So for the advanced students, high school level, college, and even players that double of sax and flute, the Lurie reed WAS probably the best deal on the planet. Too bad about the pesticides... Because of this I cannot promote Rico products, because of the possible side effects of playing their reeds.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2015-12-06 08:18)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2015-12-06 19:26
I've written about this before, but it's interesting to say it again--Mitchell Lurie reeds were once used by top professionals. Back in the 70s, there just weren't many reed choices out there for the masses. There were Vandorens (I only remember one type), but they weren't always available. I seem to remember hearing about distribution issues. There were also Olivieris, nice reeds I started using in the late 70s, but in the days before the Internet, they weren't easy to find. Morre reeds had almost a cult following (as it used to be with Coors if you lived in the Eastern U.S.), but they were almost impossible to obtain. I tried, but wasn't successful. That left Mitchell Luries.
These reeds have probably changed over the years, but in the 70s they weren't bad. One of my undergrad clarinet professors had no objection to my using them, and in fact, he gave me a list of accomplished pros who also did. I seem to remember someone posting once that Anthony Gigliotti used them at one time.
I used to find that Vandorens were slightly better than Luries, but I never seemed to have much luck with Vandorens during the winter in our cold and dry college music building. This was at a time when humidification packs were unknown, and no amount of scraping, adjusting, sanding, etc. could make these reeds come alive. Mitchell Luries weren't as fussy, and they were a great winter choice. I had a routine that involved using Vandorens from April to October, and switching to Mitchell Luries during the colder months.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-12-06 19:40
clarinetguy wrote:
> I've written about this before, but it's interesting to say it
> again--Mitchell Lurie reeds were once used by top
> professionals.
> ...I seem to remember
> someone posting once that Anthony Gigliotti used them at one
> time.
>
Yes, Gigliotti used them for a while - I can't remember if it was in the late '60s or early '70s, but there was an issue with the distributor and Vandorens weren't available for several months, maybe longer. Gigliotti started using Luries and, I think, soon after he started using them the #5-1/2 was added to the line. Gigliotti, however, didn't like the unfiled shoulders, so he hand-cut the bark back to a straight line "French" style cut.
Karl
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-12-07 00:59
It is my understanding that V12 or V21 are not specifically for "professional" players. It surely all depends on what works best on the style of lay chosen and your chosen tonal preferences. Many professionals still use VD blue box in prefence to V12 or Rue 56 etc.
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Author: 2cekce ★2017
Date: 2015-12-07 02:47
What reed brand is comparable to the Mitchell Luries in strength that are not manufactured from cane with pesticides, I like the MLs because more of them are consistent right out of the box.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-12-07 03:24
2cekce wrote:
> What reed brand is comparable to the Mitchell Luries in
> strength that are not manufactured from cane with pesticides,
The trouble is, apart from Bob Bernardo's having made us very aware of Rico's use of pesticides, we really have no way to know about any other reeds on the market. Bob makes a major point of assuring that Steuers are made without pesticides. I don't know of any other reed maker or distributor who makes any claim one way or the other.
Karl
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2015-12-07 03:54
I haven't tested other reeds. I hear that the Gonzales reeds are pesticide free. I think they say this on their website and maybe their boxes?
I will write to Bernard Vandoren this week and ask if he use pesticides.
Yes a lot of pro's used the Mitchell Lurie reeds back in the 70's and even the 80's. But when the thick reeds popped up such as the Morre' reeds and the thick Vandoren reeds, we can't forget about the Grand Concert reeds, well this changed not only what some players were looking for, but also mouthpieces started to change as well. Playing the upper register above F and G was now easier! Players were attacking pieces that went to high C. Spohr for example.
The Steuer reeds were being handmade made in East Germany starting in the 1940's and in the late 1970's I got a hold of some reeds and the blanks were really thick, like the Morre' reeds that were no longer available. I worked with Bob Marcellus trying to convince the Steuer company to make a French cut reed. They refused and continued to make only German reeds. Times changed. The Steuer company is still family owned and they moved to France about 3 years ago. They of course still make these great German reeds but also make French reeds now. I wish Bob Marcellus was still alive to play some of the reeds, sip on some bourbon and smoke a cigar! He liked bourbon and cigars!
I hope this helps with the history of the reeds. How the French and American reeds were made using thinner blanks and Germany used thicker blanks. Morre' reeds were kind of the breakthrough in the US as far as think reeds. Then slowly by demanding players asking for thick blanks Vandoren and Rico started making these in the early 90's.
I agree with seabreeze, the regular Vandorens are very close to the Mitchell Lurie reeds. He posted while I was still writing! Great post and thanks for sharing this needed information.
Bob
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2015-12-07 04:36)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2015-12-07 05:35
I seem to remember reading that Vandoren and Rico sometimes buy cane from each other. Is this true?
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2015-12-07 06:48
They have, depending on weather conditions. Meaning if there are cane shortages. I met Bernard Vandoren at Rico one time, because of a shortage of cane due to no rain in France. A very nice guy actually! I enjoyed our short conversations. Actually I saw him twice at Rico, but the second time was just shaking hands and a hello kind of thing. A 2 minute greeting at the most.
Rico and Vandoren actually have cane fields right smack next to each other in Argentina.
So it was true. I'm not sure if this arrangement is still going on, I'd say yes. In the music world we are all friends and try to help out each other. Rico owners didn't want to see Vandoren close their doors for a year or so looking for cane, or see musicians suffer.
Interesting comments!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: gwie
Date: 2015-12-07 11:00
I still recommend Mitchell Lurie (regular) reeds to my beginner-level students. In terms of cost and performance, they don't have an equal in that range. The last dozen boxes or so my 4th and 5th grade students have played on have been very consistent, and the work great right out of the box (something really important for players who have no reed adjustment skills yet).
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-07 21:00
Maybe pesticide is better than the beetles? Do they charge more for reeds with bugs? Couldnt resist.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2015-12-07 22:20
This whole discussion reminds me of when I was in college on the California Central Coast (1960s). At the time, we had no music major but we did have a large supply of avid musicians. As a band officer, I was poking around the instrument room one day and found a brand new Leblanc Eb. We had no Eb player at the time, so I did some arm twisting and became the Eb clarinet section. The problem was getting Eb reeds and I was a dedicated Vandoren user (in the hinged top magenta box). My parents lived in the San Francisco Bay Area and there was a store in San Francisco that would occasionally get in a box of Vandoren Eb reeds. When they got a box of Eb reeds, they would call my parents and mother would go get it and ship it to me. I have to admit that I learned a lot about adjusting reeds since I had to make every reed count. My time playing effer led to major improvements in my playing Bb.
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Author: Dick
Date: 2015-12-07 23:43
Way off topic, but I can't resist. Van Doren's promotion of their product includes a statement about their CO2 stewardship. The statement would be almost laughable if it were not so blatantly ill-informed. I guess everyone feels as thought they have to join in the chorus these days.
Dick
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2015-12-08 02:54
Has anyone played on the Juno reeds? Made by Vandoren for the students. If so are they any good?
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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