 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2015-12-01 14:46
I have just bought an Amati clarinet in C and am very pleased with it. However, the altissimo notes are rather flat and no change in embouchure makes much difference. I am therefore thinking of getting another barrel - the current one is 45mm. There is another one about 47mm.
Fellow posters from UK, how would I set about doing this? Would an e flat barrel be a start? Or would I have to get one made? If so, who would do this for me and what approximately, might it cost?
Many thanks in advance for any ideas...
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Author: cearnsh
Date: 2015-12-01 15:58
An Eb barrel is way too small in all dimensions to work with a C clarinet. You may find that you need a different mouthpiece from your normal Bb one to play in tune in the altissimo on a C. I use a B45 on my Leblanc LL Bb with no tuning problems, but I'm horribly flat in the altissimo with that mouthpiece on my LL C. On the other hand, a 5RV lyre + half-strength harder reed works really well. So you may have to do some experimenting to see if this sort of change might work for you.
A shorter barrel will tend to throw the rest of the tuning out, especially the throat notes, which would be a shame if it's otherwise OK.
My previous C clarinet was a Buffet E11 which I found played flat overall and I had a custom barrel made for that at Wood, Wind and Reed in Cambridge. It was about £50 IIRC, but that was quite a few years ago.
Chris
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2015-12-01 17:24
I have a Forte C and find that I have to use different altissimo fingerings than on my other clarinets (including my E-Flat). A mouthpiece switch might work also. I've been trying a Selmer HS* on mine with a 4.0+ D'addario reserve classic reed with pretty good success, although not perfect yet.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2015-12-01 19:19
Is this the Amati 354? I recently posted about my positive experience with that. Generally I found the altissimo was in tune. Only normal fingering top F was flat, but long F was OK for that note. This was on the normal tuning barrel - but it came with a shorter one as well. Not at home just now so I can't measure them.
But I don't understand: you say you're flat on the 45mm barrel, but you want to change to a 47? That will just make it worse. Didn't you get a shorter barrel supplied with yours?
It may be the mouthpiece, of course. I just used my normal Bb mouthpiece (Selmer C85) rather than the supplied Amati model - have you tried varying this?
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2015-12-01 19:39
Yes. I had read good things about it (possibly your post) so went for it. Sorry, I may have confused you. I am using the shorter barrel (45) - the longer barrel is about 47 (I don't have it to hand).
I am playing around with mouthpieces now. Interestingly, I was using a B45 (like Chris) and the best result I have had so far is a bog standard Vandoren - I am not sure what sort as the writing has worn off (!) but I think it might have been supplied with a cheap plastic model somewhere along the line.
The B below altissimo C is certainly flat - my teacher tried it out and pronounced it so, so this isn't just my dodgy hearing. What made me concerned was that I was playing flute part in a trio and I seemed out of line with the others, so came home and did some measuring with the tuner. That's the story so far.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-01 21:04
You should try a 5RV Lyre as they play on the sharp side compared to a B45 and it's much easier to flatten a note than to sharpen one.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2015-12-01 21:06
Thank you Chris. I was thinking of going to WW and R, to get it tuned up properly but maybe I don't have to...
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-12-01 21:07
The only C clarinet I know that is designed specifically to play in tune with a STANDARD mouthpiece, is the Ridneour.
Other C clarinets utilize a C clarinet mouthpiece (smaller than Bb).
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2015-12-01 22:10
Maruja: we need some definitions here. When you say altissimo B, that's a gazillion ledger lines above the staff, not just 1 - yes? When I said the altissimo tuning was OK for me, I meant the standard 3rd register from D, 2 lines above the staff, to G. I didn't ever expect to be asked to play higher than that, so I never experimented with the tuning for further notes. That high, you have to experiment with fingerings for even standard Bb instruments, and there may well be an in-tune alternative (if you ever need that note).
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2015-12-01 22:45
Is your Amati C really designed for use with a standard Bb mouthpiece? From my C's, one was, the others have shorter mouthpieces (German C: 66 mm, compared with standard German/Oehler Bb: 73 mm).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-01 23:52
I've got an old Couesnon C clarinet that plays fine with a standard Bb mouthpiece. I made a longer barrel for it as it was on the sharp side with the original, but the longer barrel has brought it into tune with itself - a shorter mouthpiece would be disastrous for the intonation.
Selmer, Leblanc (and Noblet) and Buffet Prestige, pro and E11 C clarinets are also designed to be played using a standard Bb mouthpiece as none are supplied with any other kind of mouthpiece besides the standard Bb mouthpiece. I'd hazard a guess Patricola C clarinets are too. As Ridenour clarinets are of the Leblanc design, then it stands to reason Noblet and Leblanc C clarinets do too - I borrowed a Leblanc LL C and it played well with my Bb mouthpiece (Vandoren A1) as have all the Noblet C clarinets I've tried.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-12-02 00:04
Both Walter Grabner and Ed Pillinger mention that C clarinets often tune better with a slightly different mouthpiece. From memory I think Ed Pillinger suggests one of his 926 bored models and Walter a specific model in his range.
It should be relatively easy to acquire or borrow a suitable B&H mouthpiece to test this out. Either a 926 (ebonite) or 593 (plastic). Only problem is B&H lays are horribly inconsistent! but should be adequate to see how it affects your problem notes.
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2015-12-02 00:35
One option might be to try out one of Walter Grabner's C clarinet mouthpieces. I don't have personal experience of them, but I use his wares as my first choice on Eb, bass and basset horn (all chosen in lengthy and ultimately expensive trials at Howarth's) and find them excellent. It might be worth calling Howarth's to see if they have one in stock that you could have on approval.
You can get after market barrels from various N American suppliers (Backun, Fobes and Guy Chadash). I happen to have a 44mm Chadash C clarinet barrel. As you're in the UK it might be feasible to arrange for you to try it if you'd like to contact me off line.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2015-12-02 03:01
I had a similar altissima problem with my Buffet R13 C clarinet when I was playing it with a Vandoren M15 mouthpiece. After much experimentation I finally acquired a Morgan RM-06 mouthpiece which not only, magically, resolved the intonation problems, but also gave me a warmer sound on A, Bb and C clarinets! My advice: try a number of different mouthpieces until you find just the right match!
Buffet C clarinet bore (mine, at least) is a bit larger then the bore of my R13 Bb clarinet. I don't think it was designed to play with a smaller mouthpiece.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2015-12-02 07:25
Yes try different mouthpieces. Steve Fox also designs C Clara for standard pieces.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-12-02 08:56
I have a cheap and nasty Chinese-built C clarinet. When I got it, it played flat throughout, but flatter in the altissimo. I shortened the shorter of the barrels that came with it and that brought the chalumeau up but the altissimo was still flat. I experimented with mouthpieces without much effect until I tried a large-bore B & H 1010 mouthpiece. This improved things somewhat and I was then able to play with the individual tone-holes. It now plays quite well, but it's a long way from when I bought it.
Tony F.
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2015-12-02 14:54
Dear Hurst farm
Thank you very much for offering me your Chadash as a trial. However, I have now measured the barrels more accurately and I think they are 45 and 43, so I guess your Chadash won't help. But I am grateful - where did you buy it? There do not seem to be the same range of barrels in the UK as is the US and I am hesitant about doing business there...
I have an exam in the New Year and after that I will take the C clarinet to my teacher and we can have a good go at testing the intonation together. I don't really trust myself and the Pino book says not to trust the tuners much either!
Many thanks for your kind offer
Best wishes
Sandra Truscott
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2015-12-02 17:26
Understood, and good luck!
I ordered my Chadash barrel from the man himself. Generally it's pretty straightforward dealing with reputable US sellers, the disadvantages being that we Brits get whacked by customs charges (even on second hand items), the vagaries of the exchange rate, and you have to be patient unless you're willing to pay an exorbitant premium rate postal charge...
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