 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-11-30 01:33
Have a feeling this is going to be a trial and error thing, but...
Have 5 old reeds 2, 2.5, 3. Dont need any reeds, have plenty of good ones, but trying to learn. Wet 5 minutes, rub on paper and down vamp to seal and polish. Play a scale E3-C6 and a song . E3 to Bb4 sound good to fair. Going from Bb4 to B4 and C5 squawks. C5 to C6 sounds good. Have tried to control embouchure tighter when changing notes, and to not move, and to finger correctly. This doesnt help much-going to high register I have to try the note a few times to get it right. When right it sounds OK. My options are to move reed side to side, up and down, tighten or loosen ligature, or move lig up and down. Some of this improves but not a sure fix. Not sure how to analyze. Could this be warpage and would sanding, shaving or trimming be indicated? Tried to look through tip with backlight to decide if too thick anywhere. Tried rotating side to side to see if one side vibrates better. Center of vamp cut to tip ranges 27-32 mm. Didnt measure thickness but could. I just dont know what to try next and was hoping for some suggestions because I am puzzled, or need more practice. Welcome any suggestions. They sound good enough for my needs when work but the squawks are what I cant figure out. Any suggestions welcome. Could just throw them away, but would like to learrn and develop skills at adjusting.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-11-30 02:10
Does the instrument seal?
Are you certain you're covering everything securely when you go from Bb4 to B4 or C5 (over the infamous "break")?
Try playing F3 and then lightly touching the register key with your left thumb. Does C5 come out securely or does it squawk? What about E3 to B4?
One thing that can wreak havoc is moving your thumb too far up to open the RK and leaving a sliver of the thumb hole open. You might try fingering F3 and having someone else press the RK so you don't need to move your thumb at all.
The movement involved in going from the throat notes to the long B4 and C5 can cause other holes to open, especially if you're tensing up expecting disaster. It doesn't take much of an opening to cause an unwanted harmonic, which is after all what a squeak is.
I would say that if E3-Bb4 and C5-C6 played well without connecting them that the explanation for the squawks is probably elsewhere than the reed.
Karl
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-11-30 05:02
Tried with a newer reed (8 5-minute plays). Sounded better but still a4-B4 trouble. Believe cannot go from A4 to B4 fast and accurately enough. But because old reeds are old and not the best of care I thought there could be more than fingering speed contributing. Just wanted some opinions to guide me.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-11-30 05:19
I would look for other causes first. They key is whether or not the rest of the notes play easily and are full-sounding. If, as you said, everything else works, the reed is less likely than a mechanical problem with fingering or with the instrument itself. Especially if more than one reed is involved.
Have you had the instrument checked for a coverage problem with the pads at the bottom end of the clarinet?
Karl
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-01 01:18
Nice to have other opinions. I truly think it is my fingering inaccuracy and playing at too fast a speed, fast enough where I cannot finger accurately enough quickly enough. And I must admit I had been avoiding songs that incorporated difficult note changing or transposing to other keys to use the lower register. Have to slow down until I can finger accurately.
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-01 05:01
It is fairly new clarinet. F11 Buffet a year old and played about half hour a day. Handled carefully.
What bothers me is, I can start with a reed that is newest and can sound and perform good for 5 minutes. Then can lay the reed down flat side up, and return maybe in an hour and play some more, maybe dipping and wiping or maybe not. Then it plays the lower register well. Get to B and the reed seems to close. I slide it up and down with no improvement. Doesnt look warped to view from tip toward bell end. can it maybe be too wet? Will dry drying a bt longer. Only soaked 2-3 minutes at start. Some fingering inaccuracy exists but I feel the reed is somehow at fault also.
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Author: knotty
Date: 2015-12-01 05:07
BG you said the reed seemed to close. Didn't you get a very closed MPC a while ago, was it the M13?
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-01 05:37
Actually it was....a Vandoren 88 Lyre M13. But I dont know much about mouthpieces or how to match a reed with them. I was looking for a better sound and it DID sound better and still does, than the original OEM. But I cant figure why the newest reed that hasnt been soaked, sanded, or played very long and only 6 times would be good then after drying on glass flat side up an hour would block up and squeak like this. Thought maybe it was wet and warping as it partially dried. I tried very carefully fingering and holding mouth steady and blowing long notes and B4 definitely was more difficult than an hour before. Had been playing only 5 minutes or less but today I left for an hour then came back and played on the same 3 reeds. Seemed to get harder to blow through or not at all and tip looked awfully close to mouthpiece. I will study this more and work on B4, Bb4, and A4 and let you know. Happy with mouthpiece though I chose it by playing 3 or 4 but not from technical knowledge about them. Maybe I should just change reeds to a fresh one if playing longer than 5-10 minutes.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-12-01 07:23
BGBG wrote:
> It is fairly new clarinet. F11 Buffet a year old and played
> about half hour a day. Handled carefully.
A new clarinet out of the box can leak - the quality control isn't that rigorous.
> What bothers me is, I can start with a reed that is newest and
> can sound and perform good for 5 minutes. Then can lay the
> reed down flat side up, and return maybe in an hour and play
> some more, maybe dipping and wiping or maybe not. Then it plays
> the lower register well. Get to B and the reed seems to close.
Letting it sit for an hour, it will have dried out enough that the response won't be optimal. Just out of curiosity, check the tip when you start to play again after the hour's break. Is it wavy after a few seconds of playing (or before you start the second session)? That's a sign of a reed that isn't completely wet. Warping is something different. If the tip is wavy, it needs to be wet some more and it helps sometimes to rub your thumb or a finger over the tip against a flat surface (like the mouthpiece table or the glass) to sort of "iron" it out. If the reed has dried enough, dipping it won't be enough to revive it - you'll need to soak it for a little longer until the tip straightens.
A brand new reed may start to become water-logged after a very few minutes' playing time, but the problem you describe isn't typical of a water-logged reed. A dry reed might cause the squeaks, but still be very conscious of your finger coverage.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-12-01 07:26
As with many problems of starting to play, this could be diagnosed very quickly and easily by an experienced player listening to you and seeing what you're doing with the reeds. It's hard to make suggestions over the web like this.
Karl
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2015-12-01 18:23
If the pad that closes when you play RH F/C leaks when you play RH E/B, then crossing the break is a disaster. The crows foot that controls the articulation may be out of adjustment. If you can go over the break to C fine, but not to B, that is likely the problem.
...Unless you are letting up on your air, rocking the instrument, or something like that. The reed is probably not the problem.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2015-12-01 18:45)
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-01 21:02
Tried some newer Rico 3 strength reeds. Worked on B4, C5 to C6. Reeds are good and I definitely am believing it is a fingering problem with B4, C5,C#5, and D5 being the worst. Finders are leaking and when I reposition the notes come out good. Just cant do it quickly in coordination. Do not believe it is reeds. Lower register always seems good. Tried original MP and no difference I could tell. Believe I just need more practice making these notes over and over. Thanks for the opinions and suggestions but I think I just need more practice in crossing break and making these notes. May go back to a 2 reed and work on these notes, going to a 2.5 and a 3 reed.
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Author: knotty
Date: 2015-12-01 21:41
I find a #2 reed too soft for the M13. In crossing the break there's an alternate fingering where you keep the right hand fingers down.
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-12-01 21:43
BGBG wrote:
> Believe I just need more practice
> making these notes over and over. Thanks for the opinions and
> suggestions but I think I just need more practice in crossing
> break and making these notes.
That was always the most likely explanation. But, of course, just doing it over and over without consciously finding and correcting the problem is of limited use, too. Try when you get a squeak to hold your fingers where they are and decide by feel which one(s) need to be adjusted. The test will be that if you slightly re-position the finger you think is at fault, the note will pop out. Once you've zeroed in on the culprit finger or fingers, you stand a much better chance of fixing the problem.
My nominations for prime suspects are the ring fingers of each hand, especially the LH ring finger. Another good possibility is that you're bumping into one of the "sliver" keys. And there's always the possibility I've already mentioned of rocking your finger too far when you press the register key so that you open the bottom of the thumb hole in the process.
Good luck and productive practicing!
Karl
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-02 03:14
Revelation....I found I am putting too much L thumb on register key when from A4 to B4. If I just move the edge of the thumb a little to just touch and depress the key then even the 3-strength reed sounds good and sounds the note correctly. Now to practice this. But it is smoother even after learning this!
And I realized all during my short clarinet history I was avoiding the break and upper register and even transposing songs to lower key to AVOID the break and upper register. Bad Boy, no teacher or band leader so have to spank myself, ha ha.
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Author: BGBG
Date: 2015-12-04 04:56
Getting better now ! Practicing playing A-B4-A-B4-A over and over. seems like hardest song I ever tried to play. But definite improvement with reed strengths 2, 2.5, 3.
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