 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2015-11-19 01:13
Hi,
I'm looking at a pair of early 1960s Emperors (A & Bb) and it seems their bells and barrels are not matching wood characteristics with their bodies. Could the barrels and bells of each simply been put on the wrong instrument? Does it matter?
I recall (but cannot locate) reading here that B&H did things differently and made their A barrels and bells longer than their Bb. True?
Does anyone know what the length differences between B&H A barrels and Bb barrels, and also their bells, may be?
I'm confused!
V
Post Edited (2015-11-19 01:50)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-11-19 02:52
If you mean the grain pattern on the bells and barrels is different to that of the rest of the clarinet, then that's pretty normal and not just confined to B&H either - you'll see this on nearly every wooden clarinet. You're never likely to find a single clarinet made from the same log with the same grain pattern from barrel through to bell as all the billets of wood are bought already cut to a specific size and length relative to the requirements and then mixed up (as well as a lot of them being rejected due to natural flaws).
B&H 1010s have considerably shorter bells on the Bb clarinets compared to the 1010 A clarinets - the A clarinet bells are around the same length as the bells on other B&H clarinets (Regent, Edgware, Emperor, Imperial 926) but the inside edge of 1010 bell flares are rounded off instead of having a sharp edge as the other clarinets offered by B&H had.
B&H barrels are normally 67mm long, but they are also available in 65mm and their 62mm barrels are marked 'SHORT' on the back. That's unless someone has shortened them instead of being made a shorter length than 67mm at the factory.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-11-19 03:11
I find that most of my B & H clarinets require the short barrel. With the longer barrel I have to play for about 10 minutes before they tune. A few years back I bought a job lot of barrels and was delighted to find 2 short Imperial barrels in the box.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-11-19 03:15
I have the opposite trouble - I need to use the 67mm barrel and pulled out by around 1-2mm to bring the throat notes down into tune with the rest of the instrument.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2015-11-19 03:33
Thanks Chris and Tony.
I too play my 1010 with a shorter barrel (64.4mm from memory) but I don't have its 67mm barrel to compare results. No need.
So the Emperor barrels for A and Bb are mostly interchangeable?
And the bells are definitely interchangeable?
The person who has this pair can't me much information so before I go out looking at them in person I want to somewhat reassured they aren't a complete waste of time. I'm assuming the barrel and bells have been mixed around but they still play either way.
V
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-11-19 04:52
Yes the Emperor bell and barrels for A and Bb instruments are identical, same goes for 926 Imperial and all spin offs for which a A instrument was made e.g. Edgware.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-11-19 09:39
"I have the opposite trouble - I need to use the 67mm barrel and pulled out by around 1-2mm to bring the throat notes down into tune with the rest of the instrument.
Chris."
Perhaps its a Southern hemisphere thing? Something to do with the Coriolus effect.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-11-19 21:28
I think 1010s have a slightly longer top joint compared to the other (narrower bore) B&H clarinets, so they'd have a shorter barrel to compensate for the extra length at the top end which is the same way a Yamaha CSG has a longer top joint and shorter barrel compared to their other clarinets.
The short barrel/longer top joint proportions of these clarinets are borrowing the concept from German clarinets whose barrels are only around 54mm to 58mm compared to traditional Boehm systems where barrels are from 62mm to 67mm.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2015-11-19 22:25
My 1010s, from 1984, came with four barrels: two regulars, one a mm shorter that's fatter than the others, and one about 64mm. The regulars are either 66mm or 67mm, I can't tell for sure when I stick them against a ruler, and they're interchangeable with either instrument. Playing with a piano tuned to 440, I use one of the regulars and pull out a little after playing for maybe 5 minutes, but for the whole instrument, not just the throat tones. But the mouthpiece probably affects intonation a bit, too, as do we.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-11-19 23:57
The 1010 s and Imperial 926 were designed and tuned in the factory so that when warmed up and in a nominal room temp 68-70 F they played A = 440 with the barrel pulled 1mm.
Peter Eaton uses a similar formula on his Elite and International models.
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Author: Ian.S
Date: 2020-10-22 05:14
Attachment: 20201022_020350.jpg (760k)
Hi Chris P. Your name sticks out on this site as someone very well informed. I enjoy reading yours and other's posts on here as I'm learning to play clarinet. I bought a Besson Westminster (which I learned from you was the same as a B & H Edgware) for £130 and spent £85 getting it serviced. Because I already play other instruments, I've already recorded a little bit already playing chalumeau, throat and clarion but I'm not doing the altissimo much atm. Sounds very nice through a large diaphragm condenser mic with a hall reverb. My question is about whether or not to change the barrel. What will the fatboy style barrel shape do for my sound ? Is there any need to have one ? And if so, what is the dimension I need to get as I see there are different lengths but are they all the same hole size to slot straight onto the Westminster ? Anything that can be added (within reason cost-wise) to improve the sound is worth doing isn't it ? I also changed to a homemade string ligature. I'm not sure it has changed the sound much but I find the supplied metal ligature so horrible I can't use it. I like the fact string is old-school and basic despite being more time consuming. Does it look acceptable as it seems to be holding very firmly. Any advice will be much appreciated. Thanks. Ian.S
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-10-22 11:35
I've never used any aftermarket barrels on any clarinets, so I can't say what effect they'll have as it's a personal thing - they may make things easier for you or some could make things much worse, but ultimately it's only you who will notice the real benefit or negative effects far more than the listener. B&H made some barrels much wider diameter than their usual wooden ones (and far wider than moulded plastic ones) for other models besides the 1010. If you know someone with a Peter Eaton International (as opposed to the Elite which has a 1010 bore), then try their barrel and see what difference that makes as they're much wider diameter than 1010 barrels.
As for string ligatures, that goes back centuries, is still used by many German clarinettists and has been gaining popularity outside Germany with Boehm system players in the last couple of decades, as well as several companies making string ligatures with some form of mechanism or easier method of tightening them to make them more user friendly than tying a 5' length of cord on each time (but that gets easier faster with time and practice).
I still use a Rovner ligature which is a rubberised woven fabric band (and not leather as some still think) with the screws and mechanism on top and that's good enough for me from when I bought it new in the '80s. There are inverted metal ligatures and you can even use an existing metal ligature and turn it around or have the screws at the side so the metal band puts even pressure on the reed instead of the ends of it digging into the heel.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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