 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tonyscarr
Date: 2015-11-10 00:01
A very basic question: We're in 4/4 time. if we think of each tap of the foot as containing one beat, consisting of downbeat and upbeat, where in this counting does the sound start? Is this the same or different as the following the conductor's 4/4 beating? Thanks.
Tony Scarr
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Author: Kel
Date: 2015-11-10 00:24
At the risk of being criticized for tapping my foot, I consider the beat to be when my foot touches the floor. The "and" is then the foot is at the top of its motion. So the sound starts when the toe touches the floor if the sound is to start on the beat, or when the toe is elevated if the sound is to start between the beats, as after an eighth rest.
There must be a better way to say this, but at the moment it escapes me.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2015-11-10 00:25
I was taught that the conductor's downbeat is the first foot-tap, always with my toes tapping silently inside my shoes so no sound would annoy other musicians: tap downwards on the one, the two, the three and the four.
However, when the clarinet's rhythm is on the off-beat, I keep my place better if I tap backwards. I raise my toes on the on-beats and tap downward on the offbeats. When you know where "on" is, you know where to get "off." If the tempo is so presto that tapping would get frantic, I don't tap at all -- too distracting.
(Nuts--I started out with a little chart here, but came back here to try to retrieve my original spacing, which disappeared when I posted. Nope -- back again to erase my chart, because posting it eliminates my extra spaces.)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2015-11-10 00:30)
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2015-11-10 04:29
I've always understood that the note starts when your foot starts its travel to the ground, or conversely, when your foot starts downward, play. As an inveterate foot-tapper, that's how I do it. That said, I don't always follow my foot, to the detriment of my playing and whoever else is watching my foot.
I believe the note starts as the baton travels downward. - very confusing when trying to follow a conductor whose baton mostly appears to be signalling upbeats.
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Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2015-11-10 15:02
It depends on the music and style. Sometimes you play 'laidback' or 'deep in the beat' (is this correct English?), lagging a fraction of a second behind the conductor or the bass, drums etc. sometimes you play with more 'drive'.
When playing in an orchestra the conductor may point out what he or she wants, sometimes you should know based on knowledge of the musical style or the role of your part.
In the Rolling Stones documentary Crossfire Hurricane Charlie Watts explains that playing with the timing of the beat is an essential part of the sound of the Stones. He explains that Cliff Richards leads the beat, Watts (the drummer) lags somewhat and Ronnie Wood attacks his notes still somewhat behind Watts. Of course, this is all very subtle. He also explains this is tricky, because when one of the three changes his timing relative to the others the whole structure collapses.
As an extra, playing the clarinet often there is no clear starting of the note (just as with strings). In order to blend better with the ensemble each note comes from nothing and more or less quickly becomes audible. Attack is not digital, it has some softness which can be explored for musical purposes. Now, tell me at which instant the note 'starts'?
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-11-11 15:41
To answer at a basic level, I'd say ....... the beginning of the sound designates the start of your count. The points in the air where the conductor shifts direction of movement (called the ictus) designate the beginning of each beat.
I was a bit uncomfortable with the description of the Rolling Stones. If indeed three players stagger where they come in, this only (ONLY) works with three musicians!!!! You MUST play together in a section of players playing the same part and in context of a full orchestra, I've only really heard the stagger used in slow, long held tutti notes so that the effect isn't just one, uninteresting unison slap.
As for following the conductor (which is what I think you are after), my suggestion is to respond with the rest of the group (or section) wherever that is that they begin a note on the command of execution. To bring home this point, in a symphonic setting, there is usually a slight delayed reaction. The best advice given to a new player in a symphonic group would be, "Try not to be the first one to come in."
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-11-11 22:23
You only have to watch performances by some of the leading orchestras and "famous" conductors to appreciate that there is a very wide variation between the physical travel of the baton and the start of the "sound".
In some cases there is seemingly a full beat delay.
At the more mundane level that most of us operate under then I think that the start of the sound should start with the "click" of the beat i.e. the instant that the baton reaches the bottom of it's sweep and starts to return up (assuming 4/4 time).
In the end you have to go with the practice that the ensemble and conductor you are following consider normal for them.
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