 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2015-10-29 03:24
I found these statistics from a reputable technician and was surprised with the findings which are as follows.
Serial #30,056 (1946), bore at top of top joint = 14.9 mm; at bottom of top joint = 14.8 mm ; at top of lower joint = 14.8 mm ; at bottom of lower joint = 21.9 mm.
Serial #242,913 (1983). Bore at top of top joint = 14.8 mm; at bottom of top joint = 14.7 mm; at top of lower joint = 14.8 mm ; at bottom of lower joint = 21.9 mm.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-10-29 03:39
Not sure what the surprise is?
The pre R13 and R13 instruments are different bore designs with the R13 being polycylindrical which means that the bore is "stepped" along the upper joint and has 3 different diameters.
Just measuring the top and bottom dimensions does not tell the full story - it's also what happens in between (plus of course an awful lot else as well e.g. tonehole sizes, shapes, positions etc etc).
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2015-10-29 09:20
I currently see over 50 Buffet R13's and Pre R13's a year. I will do that and report my findings. I will be expanding that considerably in the next year or so with the launch of a new business. Thanks.
Post Edited (2015-10-29 09:21)
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2015-10-29 22:20
For what it's worth, here are some measurements I made of Buffet Bb's from a variety of years (top and bottom of upper joint). I think it's worth trying to quote to 0.01 mm. From making these measurements at a number of different times, I believe one can get consistency to maybe 0.02-0.03 mm when using decent calipers (beyond that, you run into the trouble that the bores aren't round).
1925 14.80 14.91
1936 15.05 14.91
1946 14.90 14.87
1959 14.90 14.69
1974 15.09 14.68
1982 15.01 14.76
These numbers suggest that the amount of tapering on the pre-R13 instruments (1st 3 entries) is always less than the R13 design, although there are significant variations in both eras - and of course this doesn't distinguish a pure conical taper from something polycylindrical.
The agreement with clarineteer is not great: 14.8 at the top of a 1983 R13 seems very narrow, and he only sees 0.1 tapering, whereas the R13 tapers above that I get are 0.21 (1959), 0.41 (1974), 0.25 (1982). Possibly the 1974 instrument is unusual - it's a BC20 - although I thought that mainly just affected the positioning of the register key.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-10-29 22:50
Be aware that it is very common to find bore distortion at each end of the top joint but especially at the upper end as this is where the impact of warm moist breath is most significantly felt, and especially swelling if the wood is not regularly oiled in the early years.
For accurate measurement you really need a bore guage that can measure at least 2 cms down from the ends to avoid this distortion.
The nominal lower measurement on an R13 is 14.65mm and in the many hundreds of R13s I have handled this is usually about what I measure just above the tenon.
Ovality at the very top end is quite common so you need to take at least 3 measurements and average the result.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2015-10-30 00:38
Norman: can you recommend somewhere online that sells the kind of gauge you're discussing? The calipers I use can only get up to 1cm inside, and that's not enough for measuring bore dimensions in barrels in particular - which I'd like to be able to do. I've googled in various ways quite a few times but never seen anything suitable. Thanks.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-10-30 02:24
John, I have several different types of bore gauges that I use in various circumstances but I think several years ago I bought one of mine from Allendale Stores.
Lowest cost is the telescopic type that you transfer reading to your micrometer. Works OK but not easiest to use, only takes measurement at one point at a time. and takes practice to get consistent results.
Direct micrometer tip in bore type are more expensive but easier to read and makes comparisons very simple e.g. as slid in bore rapidly shows if there is a taper along bore. Can usually penetrate a long way down a bore.
Also have a "scissor like" gauge with direct dial readout that again is easy to use and allows approx 4 cms penetration into bore. This is really handy for barrels and mouthpieces.
One gauge measures to 0.0001" - you can measure the grain variation in the wood!!- rather too sensitive for woodwind use.
Type "bore gauge" on that site! and get 1000+ hits, just seen that Allendale show up there too.
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