 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: thecuriousclarinet
Date: 2015-10-04 22:20
So I can play my B-flat clarinet quite in-tune with itself, although sharp, if that makes sense. So the intervals are correct, but all consistently high.
I've been looking through old posts on the forum, and things I have found to deal with sharpness are: tuning rings, different mouthpiece, longer barrel.
My biggest problem is that I have to pull out really far at the middle joint to be able to play in tune (and god forbid I am playing with a flat piano, as was the case with my concert last night).
Any good advice?
For reference, I have a Buffet R-13 clarinet which is about 15 years old (I bought it new at the time), I'm currently playing on a Vandoren M30 Profile 88 mouthpiece, and a 66mm MoBa barrel. Also note, I am not overall sharp on my A-clarinet. There are even a few notes that tend to be flat.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-10-04 22:39
Measure the exact entire lengths of the upper and the lower joints (both separately and also fitted together without the barrel or bell) in millimetres to be sure they're the correct length as I do believe some were built to 442Hz and maybe even 444Hz which would have noticeably shorter joints compared the lengths of joints to ones built to 440Hz.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2015-10-04 23:36
When the serial number is prefixed with a 'F' your Buffet was made for the France or European continental market (A= 442 - 444 Hz).
Without the 'F' prefix means 'American' pitch ( A=440).
Do you have the 'F' prefix?
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2015-10-05 18:27
Sorry to burst your bubble, Silversorcerer, but there are American orchestras that use higher pitch standards than 440.
About 7-8 years ago I performed a folk music excerpt at a Minnesota Orchestra children's concert. The backstage tuner for the orchestra was set at either 441 or 442 (can't remember).
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2015-10-05 21:04
There are also Americans who drive over the speed limit, and the enforcement there is pretty lax as well. I have no bubble to burst, honey. A=440 Hz was adopted as a standard by the US government in 1920, following the adoption of the standard by the American Federation of Musicians in 1917. In the USA, that is the standard and one tooky little orchestra in Minneapolis playing 1-2Hz sharp changes that somehow? Get real.
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I'm sorry, but this is just an idiotic statement.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2015-10-06 00:07
NYC Phil and LA Phil tune to A 442.
To the OP have you tried the 13 series vandoren? The non 13 series play at 442.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2015-10-06 00:14
Discounting bubbles bursting perhaps you should just try a longer Moba barrel.. 67or 68mm.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-10-06 00:18
While I agree with Silversorcerer that it would be a grand idea if we all played at A=440, I can confirm that Katrina is correct, there are many groups that play at higher pitch in both the USA and internationally. One of the reasons (by no means the ONLY reason) for this is that percussion instruments are often pitched higher than A=440 (and there's more than one reason for this too).
I don't think it was arrogant of Katrina to mention this well known fact, the "burst your bubble" comment is perhaps open to interpretation and given it's target perhaps unwise. In the 21st century putting someone down by calling them "honey" is considered condescending, sexist and rude and best avoided.
There is a recording of a solo performance I gave in Germany in 2002, you can hear I'm seriously flat for the first 45 sec following an instrument swap, until I warm up. The piano was tuned at 445, but I didn't stomp around blaming the Germans, I cursed my stupidity for not using my 65mm barrel. Yes, it would be nice if we all played/tuned at 440, then EVERYTHING would be in tune ALL THE TIME, right?
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2015-10-06 01:59
Theoretically yes. But people differ. Would you ask someone else to fine tune your clarinet or flute for you before a concert? I wouldn't. People play differently.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: thecuriousclarinet
Date: 2015-10-06 02:48
Jeroen wrote:
> When the serial number is prefixed with a 'F' your Buffet was
> made for the France or European continental market (A= 442 -
> 444 Hz).
> Without the 'F' prefix means 'American' pitch ( A=440).
> Do you have the 'F' prefix?
No, there is no F prefix. I didn't know that though!
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Author: thecuriousclarinet
Date: 2015-10-06 02:51
cigleris wrote:
> NYC Phil and LA Phil tune to A 442.
>
> To the OP have you tried the 13 series vandoren? The non 13
> series play at 442.
>
I haven't, but, wouldn't that just make a difference for the throat tones, etc, just like having a longer barrel does?
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-10-06 03:08
Strictly speaking there is no such thing as a 440 or 442 clarinet, just one clarinet that is marginally sharper of flatter than the other.
The clarinet is only one part of a total system when it comes to pitch and that system starts inside the player.
In Brymers book on the clarinet he details an occasion when the two co-principal players of the LSO swapped their instruments for a test and if my memory serves me correctly there was at least a quarter tone difference in pitch when this took place.
The two players at that time were I understand Jack Brymer and Roy Jowitt both at the top of the profession.
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-10-06 04:13
I recall being told by Francois Kloc (at clarinetfest 2000, while he was re-boring my R13 for me) that the 1970s "F series" clarinets were actually hand tuned with the shorter barrel, but by the 1980s they didn't bother making the clarinets any differently at the factory- F clarinets came with a shorter barrels, clarinets without the F prefix came with a barrel 1mm longer and that was the only difference.
I don't know how true this is, but I recall the conversation accurately.
dn
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2015-10-08 13:47
Norman Smale wrote:
> Strictly speaking there is no such thing as a 440 or 442
> clarinet, just one clarinet that is marginally sharper of
> flatter than the other.
>
> The clarinet is only one part of a total system when it comes
> to pitch and that system starts inside the player.
> In Brymers book on the clarinet he details an occasion when the
> two co-principal players of the LSO swapped their instruments
> for a test and if my memory serves me correctly there was at
> least a quarter tone difference in pitch when this took place.
> The two players at that time were I understand Jack Brymer and
> Roy Jowitt both at the top of the profession.
>
Yes, one of them used an long barrel and the other a very short one with the same model of instrument and mouthpiece. Brymer also mentions that some players need the tone holes for the throat register adjusting to either sharpen or flatten them. Presumably the guy with the long barrel needs them opening up and the guy with the short barrel needs them closing a bit. It would seem that tuning isn't entirely set in the instrument; the player is part of the system too.
So as regards 440/442 stuff. If you tend to play flat you probably want one marketed as a 442 instrument. If you tend to play sharp then maybe a 440 one. At the end of the day just buy an instrument that works for you.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2015-10-08 13:49
thecuriousclarinet wrote:
> ...
> For reference, I have a Buffet R-13 clarinet which is about 15
> years old (I bought it new at the time), I'm currently playing
> on a Vandoren M30 Profile 88 mouthpiece, and a 66mm MoBa
> barrel. Also note, I am not overall sharp on my A-clarinet.
> There are even a few notes that tend to be flat.
So you've stuck with this sharp playing instrument for 15 years? Why?
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