 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2015-09-22 23:11
Those radiant, laser-like clarinets certainly have no problem "projecting," being picked up by the mike or generally being heard. No cocobolo fat boy barrels or dark, covered or "mellow" hollow sound for them. They just push the overtones out better than the flute or the double reeds. By contrast, today clarinets (but not necessarily the Eb) playing the same parts sound rather distant and muffled, if also a bit "weightier." Also, the timbre contrast between flute and clarinet today is not likely to be so striking.
Does anyone know if that's M. R. Verney (Rene Verney) playing the first clarinet solo?
Post Edited (2015-09-26 01:54)
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2015-09-22 23:54
I really enjoyed that. The clarinet sound was striking and open.
AAAClarinet
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2015-09-23 05:13
Sounded like there were a lot of blips inbetween the notes. Is that normal with old recordings?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-09-23 08:29
It's a very typical French tone from 1930. Compare, for example, the nearly identical tone of Ulysse Delecluse on his late 78 and early 33 rpm disks.
Listen on for the whooping, smearing trombone, about as different from today's style as it could possibly be.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2015-09-23 10:00
Yes- I sent the clip to our principal trombonist and asked how it would be if someone played like that in an audition. I doubt it would go down well today, even though Ravel was obviously ok with it!
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-09-23 17:40
Styles change over time. A modern clarinetist or trombonist would likely have just as much trouble being accepted back then, as a player from 1930 being accepted today. Do not fall into the trap of assuming either that the older is somehow "better", OR that the newer is automatically "more refined". Is 1930's clothing better than 2015? Or vice versa?
But I do think the value of old ways gets lost over time, even from those who think they understand. Are there prominent clarinetists or trombonists today who can faithfully play the 1930 style? ...on demand, or all the time? Or am I exaggerating the changes over 85 years? Interesting stuff.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: fuzzystradjazz
Date: 2015-09-23 21:24
Hi Stan,
You asked, "Are there prominent clarinetists or trombonists today who can faithfully play the 1930 style? ...on demand, or all the time?" - the answer is a resounding "yes" - many of them are out there. Just off the top of my head, John Otto, Dan Levinson, James Evans, (clarinet) and many more (we could get region specific too and split folks into "New Orleans" "Chicago" "East Coast" and "West Coast" - of course the style played isn't classical, but it is authentic 1918-1940 music, sound, and technique.
Andy Schumm should probably even be included as a "clarinetist" (multi-instrumentalist) who can do this - even though he is best known for his authentic cornet work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boXNtfmg2Y0
David Sager, Charlie Holleran, etc would be the off-the-top-of-my head suggestions for trombone players.
On the flip side, I don't know of anyone playing the James (Jim) Reese Europe style of 1918 music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4xODDsTpCw (this one is fun simply for the arrangement, the trombone smears, etc.) This was an exceedingly popular band during their stay in France during the war, and upon their return to the US...until the unfortunate murder of James Europe by one of the drummers in his band.
:)
Fuzzy
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2015-09-23 22:06
Phew that bassoon is rushing like crazy! Love the sound though.
Actually, the most surprising to me on this recording is how much they play rhythm inaccurately.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-09-24 00:01
In 1930 electrical microphone recording had only been in existance for a very few years and the frequency response characteristics of the microphone often found it hard to cope with some instrument timbres. The clarinet was often one of the most difficult to record faithfully and I have heard some LP recordings from the 1950s still struggling a bit in this area.
I suspect that the real life tone of the clarinet player in this recording would be a little less "reedy" than heard here.
I however do personally like to hear the more direct and open clarinet sounds of the pre-war era - much less "affectation" in those days.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2015-09-24 00:54
Sylvain wrote:
> Phew that bassoon is rushing like crazy!
He had a lot of company, since he wasn't the only one. 
...GBK
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-09-24 01:51
Tenor sax player is in a hurry to get out the door too.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-09-24 02:32
The Eb player at 2:42 is more in tune than the Bb player at 1:04 who is both flat and sharp and not stable (as if the disk changed speed).
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2015-09-24 03:32
How dare this egotistical conductor ignore the plain writing of the score in his wildly erratic phrasings and libertine permissiveness! Had Ravel wanted those lines played unevenly he would have written them that way! DOH!
(Recordings such as this betray the silliness of so much that passes for refinement and education).
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2015-09-25 15:47
Author: Johan H Nilsson (---.bredband.comhem.se - (Com Hem AB) , 28 Sweden)
Date: 2015-09-24 02:32
The Eb player at 2:42 is more in tune than the Bb player at 1:04 who is both flat and sharp and not stable (as if the disk changed speed).
Perhaps the disc did change speed - if the hole is not in the exact centre, the playback will go flat and sharp every turn, as the radius go from too big to too small.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-09-25 16:17
Imagine having to play this back in the day and having to flip the 78 over and then change discs (several times) just to hear the whole thing.
What a difference 33(.3)rpm LPs made.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-09-25 22:28
There was a small relief - many works that covered multiple shellac sides could be purchased in 2 formats and one of those formats had succesives sides on different disks so that it was possible (if 2 turntables were available) to have virtually continuous play. Still however rather inelegant I agree.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2015-09-28 13:49
Silversorcerer wrote:
>
> I found this, and it is in really good playable condition. Only
> one barrel ring has been reduced, so we can easily get that
> sorted out. I used a vintage 2RV with it and it is indeed a
> very different clarinet tone that later instruments produce,
> although not so shrill as the recordings render.
>
I recently restored a pair of clinton system clarinets by Jacques Albert Fils from the 1920s. They have that bright open sound like this recording. Great for early jazz I think. Incidentally, they have a reverse taper in the top joint, intonation is easily as good as a modern professional instrument and the the keywork is absolutely superb.
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The Clarinet Pages
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