 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: josé
Date: 2015-01-04 06:44
Hello my friends I bought at an auction on ebay,a model clarinet 223 ,serial number 119197, Bell is has fancy flower and scroll engraving and says "Made by Frank Holton and Co., Elkhorn Wis."silver body and inside the bell is gold-plated,the barrel is fixed has no mechanical adjustment,the pads have to change,I would like to know more about my clarinet,if this model is professional?Sorry if I wrote something wrong,thanks bye.
Post Edited (2015-01-05 01:38)
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2015-01-07 08:09
While that is a higher end Frank Holton model, I don't know if any are truly "professional" like a Silva-Bet, Buescher, Selmer Paris, Silver King, etc...There is a higher end Holton model yet that had solid sterling silver keys and fittings, of which I have one, with 17 keys/7 rings and mechanical tuning barrel. Let me know how yours plays as I probably won't get to fixing mine for a while.
Post Edited (2015-01-07 18:35)
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Author: johntownley
Date: 2015-09-08 06:07
I have a restored sterling silver keyed Holton on the way, which includes the adjustable barrel, but only six rings, and I'm curious about serial numbers. The number Jose has mentioned would fit Holton's general serial number list for the mid-1930s, in the six-figure range, but mine is more like a Bettoney, 2036, not far off from my 1928-ish Boston Wonder stencil (“The Dictator Line” New Orleans and Waco with the 1927 patent still pending, P6930). Further, a seller of one identical to mine this summer on eBay (who didn’t list the serial #, though I’ve just written and asked) points out the design similarities to a Silva Bet. So, Modernicus, what’s the number on yours? And, have you restored it, and what does it sound like ? And Jose, how does yours sound if you’ve got it going? I’m wondering was there interaction between these two companies, or did Holton just start up a separate line with different (and much lower) numbers than the 223, or 221?
This Holton pro (or not) model was clearly designed to appeal to the high-end metal clarinet market, but seriously pricier than the Bet, so maybe they priced themselves right out of the oncoming Depression market, while succeeding with the more modestly-priced Collegiate…will let you know how mine sounds when it arrives…
John Townley, Sea Cliff, NY
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2015-09-10 04:05
Ah, neat, I think I know which one you bought. The other one you mentioned I believe was being sold by someone who posted here about it(and interestingly lives incredibly close to me geographically). I think perhaps I was the one who suggested a Bettony link with these instruments. Mine is S2152 and I have seen the exact or very similar font/format on Bettony metal clarinets, Silva-Bets I recall. Then there is the tuning barrel similarity, as I also have mentioned before. Mine is still unrestored, please report your impressions!
Post Edited (2015-09-10 04:13)
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Author: johntownley
Date: 2015-09-11 21:19
I wrote the other guy who sold one this summer (interesting he lives near you), but he didn’t recall the serial #. And interesting yours is so close to mine. Two quick questions: is the S on your number above the number (mine is, and there is a small S1 to the right of the number) or at the front of it on the same line (usual with Silva-Bets) and does the point of the flower engraving of the bell line up directly with the main holes line or slightly to the left of them as mine does? Just trying to figure if that S is for “second” (as happens with some instruments of all sorts) or it’s the way Holton did it normally. Can’t really tell from the pix of the other one on eBay.
As for numbers and dates, it seems like CB numbered all their instruments individually, then put a letter to identify the model level on it, regardless of whether it was an official CB or a stencil. S for Silva-Bet, P for Boston Wonder, A for Three-Star, though sometimes the military-bound BW stencils would have a U. From what I’ve seen on eBay and my own Dictator, the Patent Pending bunch (from Jan 1927 to March 1929) run from somewhere around 4000 to somewhere under 8000, after which the patent is listed without the pending. That would put yours and mine (with no patent, pending or otherwise) at probably 1926, as the Bet only started in 1925. And, right now on eBay there’s a Boston with only three figures and a more primitive CB logo, presumably from 1925.
Of course, supposedly, CB never stenciled the Bet, as it did so abundantly with the rest. But now, it looks as though they did, perhaps allowing Holton (otherwise a potential competitor, but a brass instrument maker only, except for Beaufort French wood stencils) to get on and help build the metal bandwagon that would so quickly catch fire.
I’m delighted with the sound of mine…similar tight focus to the Dictator/BW, but much larger, warmer, and louder evenly throughout the range, and accurate to a farthing, across the board, which makes all the difference. Silver keys are rather bendable (good for adjusting, but more tender), and slightly larger, and the whole thing is 100 grams heavier than the Dictator or than some other Silva-Bets are listed (reason: the barrel is quite heavy, they’re the same without barrel, 700 grams).
And, last question, the patent application’s adjustable barrel (the double-ring variety) lists four equally-spaced vertical stabilizing posts inside, but my actual one has only thee. Does yours? Might be a pre-patent variety, or something else…final products often vary from original patent docs…
Would love to know all…it’s a great history story, really…
John Townley, Sea Cliff, NY
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2015-09-15 21:20
Mine has the 4 digit serial number with the S above and nothing else. I'll take a look at the engraving and see how it aligns. Good to hear that it's a nice player. Mine will need some work as I believe it may have served time as a lamp or something. It's missing a pivot rod and some posts are bent out of alignment (body OK) It has also been coated with some sort of lacquer or something, keys and all? Luckily, it seems fine otherwise and no major missing parts. The tuning barrel was frozen, but I got it free and cleaned/oiled so it should be fine now. I'll post some pics if I get a minute.
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Author: johntownley
Date: 2015-09-19 05:07
Sure sounds close to mine and the other one, guess there really was an early set of Silva Bet-Holton sterling-key hybrids. Would love to know whether your barrel has three (like mine) or four (like the patent) guide posts inside. Mine shifts a little, no matter how much you tighten it, so I just took off the locking ring and screwed it down to the shortest and it's nice and secure. Suppose one could put some sort of stuffing inside instead to stabilize, but I haven't come up with anything clever.
And with 5JB Vandoren mouthpiece, the thing is quite thunderous, really, and sweet, and accurate...what a marvelous rarity...
John Townley, Sea Cliff, NY
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Author: Mirko996
Date: 2015-09-21 00:23
I have Holton Elkhorn, bought for 200€ on eBay, brass material and is bad instrument although I fix and repaded... But I had a good possibility to have a metal clarinet (the only thing I hope is to sell it).
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2015-09-21 09:54
Mine has three posts inside the barrel. Mirko, it sounds like not all Holtons were created equal!
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