 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: deejay
Date: 2001-05-02 23:58
I have a Selmer Signet Special clarinet that is really getting old. Which clarinet would be better a Amati or Leblanc Symphonie clarinet??
deejay
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-05-03 00:13
I really liked the LeBlanc Opus I played.
Check with Brenda Siewert (clarinetgrammy) she plays the Symphonie.
I have heard good things about the fit and finish of the Amati, but their resale value is prohibitively low.
What do you want from a horn that the Signet cannot give?
Have you exhausted your (considerably less expensive) mouthpiece options?
anji
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-03 01:17
Symphonies are great! I just sold mine to Bob Gardner! So, I don't have one right now. Mine was the new Symphonie VII and they're really expensive---like over $3,000.00 even through discount stores. But older Leblanc Symphonies are great too, if you can get one in really good condition and don't have to spend a bunch having an overhaul. They have a nice sound. Bob also has an older Symphonie III. He likes it a lot. And, Anji is right about resale, you can usually get a good price for a used Leblanc professional instrument that's in good condition.
As to Armati--yuck!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-05-03 01:31
I play a Leblanc Symphonie II and it is a wonderful instrument.
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Author: deejay
Date: 2001-05-03 01:38
My Selmer Signet Special is in pretty bad shape and starting to get out of tune very badly. That's why my director switched my to tenor sax!!! GRRR! He makes me so mad. I am trying to tell him it is not me, which is isn't, because I played the school and my friends and they are well in tune.. so it must be my clarinet..
Just wondering, but what's so wrong with the Amati?
deejay
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Author: Fred
Date: 2001-05-03 01:47
Deejay, you could probably get a decent Amati, but as soon as you took possession of it the value would drop like a rock. It is unnecessary to take that kind of hit if you'll stick with better accepted brands.
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Author: William
Date: 2001-05-03 02:27
I play and recommend the LeBlanc Concerto clarinet for its versatility in all performance venues, projection, tone quality, eveness between registers and intonation. They run about $2000 new. If $ is a problem, then you might try the LeBlanc Sonata, accoustical "little cousin" of the Concerto/Opus clarinets and quite a bit more affordable. I agree with the other members to avoid the "off" brands--for re-sale value, stick with the LeBlanc, Buffet, Selmer or Yamaha lines. Also, IMHO, if at all possible, try before you buy. FYI--my mp is an original Kaspar #14. Greg Smith makes very good Kaspar and Chedeville replicas and they work quite well on my LeBlancs. Good luck with your choices.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-03 14:04
As above, I have liked the LeBlancs for years as they have IMHO produced fine cls for the wide range of classics to jazz. My favorite is an 80's model L7, I provided a Classic for my grandson and an early [50's] for my son, have owned an L70 but really havent kept up with the '90+ models. Have been investing in the Selmers! lately. As you may see so far, there lots of LeB owners and opinions. Don
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Author: C. Hogue
Date: 2001-05-03 15:36
Deejay, has your Signet Special ever been overhauled? If maintenance is all it needs, that $150-$200 investment might be a less expensive fix than a new horn.
As for getting a new clarinet, I second the other posters -- get a LeBlanc over an Amati any day.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-03 17:17
The Amatis don't sound as good as the Leblancs, nor do they hold up as well. Leblanc has been a leader in professional clarinets for about 250 years--so, they really have a solid reputation. I have several Leblancs and prefer them over the Buffets because they have easier and more dependable intonation. They're well built and have a great tone.
As with anything, buy the best you can afford and even stretch a bit if possible. Then you won't "outgrow" your instrument and the extra boost you'll get as a player will be well worth your sacrifice.
Several companies will let you take an instrument on approval: Woodwind and Brasswind and International Musical Suppliers are a couple. I've taken some from Brook Mays on occasion. You have to put it on your credit card and there will be a restocking fee, plus shipping, so it won't be free--. But, if you don't have access to a music store where you can go into a practice room and test an instrument before buying it, they are a wonderful source.
Also, continue your research. You find out a lot by hearing from other players who have had experience with the instrument. Ditto to everyone above about sticking with the major players in the field: Leblanc, Buffet, Selmer and Yamaha. I'd also place them in that order of preference for me. Steer clear of Amati.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-03 19:56
Brenda, I agree with nearly all you have said above, and, [picking fly specs from the pepper!!], Rendall doesn't list LeBlanc as a maker in the age range of 1700-'75, but does list G LeBlanc as "Paris, Modern". Dee may have better info, the earliest US patent of LeB [Leon]that I have is 1.926,489 [1933] , but am sure there are many earliers, prob French and others. Really dont know their early history, tho. Can you [and others] please help {Mark C??}.. Regards, Don
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-05-03 20:08
Prior to about 1900, it was known as the Noblet company. However the last owner by that name had no heirs and so passed it on to Mr. Leblanc. The company name was then changed to Leblanc and the name Noblet preserved in Leblanc's intermediate line of clarinets.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-03 21:51
This past year (2000) marked the Noblet/Leblanc company's 250th anniversary in the clarinet/woodwind business. Dee is correct that they began as the Noblet company in 1750, founded by Denis Noblet. In 1904, Georges Leblanc assumed control from Mr. Noblet and in April of 1989 Leon Leblanc passed controlling interest to Vito Pascucci.
So, you could break that down however you wanted to do it. You could say, Noblet is 250 years old--or you could say the Leblanc line of clarinets and woodwinds (including Noblet) is 250 years old. In either choice, the knowledge and technique of producing fine clarinets has a 250 year reputation.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-04 02:28
Thank you, Brenda, for a good run-down on the Noblet-LeBlanc history, just didn't realize it stretched back that far, since my best reference [Rendall] doesn't list Noblet at all!! Will check some other books, possibly Mark will put in the Langwill info so I can add both yours and his to my"library archives" [several boxes of paper!!] . Still not too oldt to learn! thank the lord. Regards, Don
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-04 02:37
Don, my info came directly from Leblanc's magazine "Bell," so hopefully the information is correct. You might check out their website at:
<www.gleblanc.com>
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-04 02:38
woops! The www. part didn't come out. Try www.gleblanc.com and see what you can find. Anyway, they've been around a long time in the clarinet world.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-05-04 03:24
Don,
The Noblet name runs that far back, not the Leblanc name. Since they own Noblet, they use it (rightfully) to show their roots.
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Author: Stewball
Date: 2001-05-04 07:54
deejay,
Get the clarinet that looks the best. Its not important how you sound or play. What really matters is that others see you playing a cool looking instrument.
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Author: Stewball
Date: 2001-05-04 19:39
> Are you kidding?
I was attempting to make a point by illustrating absurdity.
This person is willing to shell out big bucks on a piece of junk Amati, yet not willing to spend a few bucks to fix up a perfectly good instrument. Even to the point where they get mad at their band director for their own problems.
Obviously deejay is not ready for an advanced clarinet, or the band director would not be making her play Sax. Hopefully deejay will listen to the sound advice offered on this board and get their current instrument properly serviced. My guess is, if he/she does this, the band director will take him/her more serious.
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Author: deejay
Date: 2001-05-05 02:11
>>This person is willing to shell out big bucks on a piece of junk Amati, yet not willing to spend a few bucks to fix up a perfectly good instrument. Even to the point where they get mad at their band director for their own problems.
Well I didn't know they were a piece of junk thats why I asked!!
>>Obviously deejay is not ready for an advanced clarinet, or the band director would not be making her play Sax. Hopefully deejay will listen to the sound advice offered on this board and get their current instrument properly serviced. My guess is, if he/she does this, the band director will take him/her more serious.
um.. excuse me! I'm a he. I have been playing clarinet for 6 going on 7 years now. The ONLY reason I play sax is we have way to many clarinets. We have more clarinets than any other instrument. My band director told me not to worry about the crack in the bell and I told him I wanted it fixed, but he told me no... Its the whole length of the bell, you can also see it on the outside, but doesn't go all the way through.
Will they beable to repair the inside of the barrel? The wood inside has some chips in it.
deejay
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Author: Fred
Date: 2001-05-05 03:24
deejay - by now you recognize the regulars on this board and know where we are coming from. When a post comes from out of nowhere with insulting remarks, by all means . . . give it all the attention it deserves.
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Author: Stewball
Date: 2001-05-05 04:34
>> Well I didn't know they were a piece of junk thats why I asked!!
You asked this before, remember:
http://www.sneezy.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=38591&t=38581
>> The ONLY reason I play sax is we have way to many clarinets
Of course you are right. Most band directors just don't have a clue. If only they would follow the directions of their students, band would be so much better!
I am sorry I hurt your feelings. I will try to be more considerate in the future.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-05-05 11:39
deejay wrote:
>
> ... My band director told me not to worry about the
> crack in the bell and I told him I wanted it fixed, but he told
> me no... Its the whole length of the bell, you can also see
> it on the outside, but doesn't go all the way through.
>
> Will they beable to repair the inside of the barrel? The wood
> inside has some chips in it.
Who owns this clarinet? You or the school. If you own it, you can have it fixed anyway. Just find a place to take it and get it repaired. I know some schools make the arrangements on horns students own but the student pays for it. If it's your horn, you don't have to wait on the school or go through the school. Regarding the barrel, they may be able to fix it but if not barrels aren't all that expensive for student line instruments.
If it is a school owned horn, then of course the school decides if it is to be fixed. In this case you really should have your own horn.
Besides the beginning crack, which really should be repaired before it does go through, and the chips in the barrel, just exactly what is wrong with your Selmer Signet? If you've played it for 6 or 7 years with no major repairs, it's time for a complete and thorough overhaul. If it's stuffy or the tuning is/has changed, that's a sign of leaks and/or misalignment.
Have you ever upgraded your mouthpiece? Are you using good quality reeds? These things make a huge difference in how well an instrument plays.
From the number of different posts that you have made, I get the impression that you are a little bit afraid to take the plunge and pick an instrument. Sooner or later though you need to do that. Here is a set of questions that you can use to evaluate the candidate instruments.
1. Is it made by one of today's acknowledged leaders (Leblanc, Selmer, Buffet, Yamaha)? If not go to something else. At this point in time, it would be risky for you to buy outside this list. There are good older horns from companies now out of business but unless you're buying from someone like Dave Spiegelthal who can tell you their relative merits and qualities, stay with the big four.
2. Select a high end intermediate or pro horn from one of these makers. If you select a low end intermediate or beginner horn, you'll be making a sideways step not a step up.
3. Make sure the instrument is in good condition. New or used is fine. However on used horns, take someone with you who has the experience to evaluate the condition of the instrument.
4. Play it. Check the tuning. If you like the way it plays and it's in tune (but no clarinet is perfect), it's not too critical which of the big four made it or which model it is. This is a major point. If it plays well for you and feels good to you, don't worry about what other people may like. Everyone is dfferent.
5. Is the price appropriate? For new horns, check the catalogs of the major online dealers like International Music or Woodwind/Brasswind. If you like to buy locally, which is a good idea, take the catalog with you and use it to bargain your local price down. Don't expect to match it but if they get close, grab it. For used horns, check the going price in your area in shops, newspaper ads etc and also check the typical final auction prices on eBay. Note that buyers on eBay stay low if they are smart as they expect to have to have some maintenance put into it.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-05 15:04
deejay, I had to play a piece of junk school-owned instrument when I was a kid and it's tough. My parents didn't have the money for me to get it fixed on my own and I sure didn't have any. I was stuck with fixing it with glue and rubber bands and whatever else would work long enough to hold it together to play through rehearsals and concerts. My dad felt really bad about it, and the director couldn't do anything about it because the school wouldn't approve repairs. So, I had to learn how to live with it and overcome it the best I could. I worked a little harder than the kids who had great new instruments.
My advice is to decide which instrument you enjoy most--the clarinet or the sax. Then begin to save your money to purchase your own instrument or get those repairs.
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Author: deejay
Date: 2001-05-06 01:45
I can have it overhauled and key replated for 290. Is that a good price? I own the clarinet. The bad thing is that there is no music store down here that does repairs. There one music store.. There is one an hour away, but they do terrible job. Then the next music store is 2 hours away.
Yes, I got a mouthpiece. It is a Van. 5RV. I don't use it any more because it fell off of the table and chipped the end.. so now I use this crappy one.
Is a Yamaha YCL-34 at the same level as my Selmer Signet?
deejay
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-05-07 06:05
Just play them and compare by your own standard.
I do not like to have prejudice to scorn Amati just because they are made in east europe.
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