 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-08-09 08:03
Attachment: Eb-Bb-pop-good.mp3 (364k)
Attachment: Eb-Bb-pop-bad.mp3 (391k)
At the end of one of my songs, I hold an Eb6 ![[Eb6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/eb6.gif) for about a 5 sec sfz ending with vibrato (love it or hate it), then pop up to the ending note Bb6 ![[Bb6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/bb6.gif) at ff or whatever I can muster. Getting the Bb clean was problematic for years, then I switched my Bb6 fingering from my usual R (No thumb) o x x (C#/G# key) | o o o (G#/D# key) to R (No thumb) x x x (C#/G# key) | x x x (F/C key) and that fixed it- it was nearly always clean. My first "good" audio sample is pretty close to how I want it. It's supposed to be a slur or pop up- no air space between the notes.
Recently the Bb6 has become unreliable again, with many outcomes more like the 2nd "bad" sample, ugh. That's no way to finish a big song. Many things in my setup have shifted of late for the better, and this seems to be a casualty of that process of general improvement.
When I fumble the Bb during practice, I start playing the Eb-Bb phrase over and over, and it's mostly fine. Then I try the last 10-20 measures of the song a few times, and that too, is pretty secure. But next time I play the song all the way through, when we reach the end for that big note, it seems the reed is (or I am) too tired. Or I've just psyched myself out of being able to do it, hard to say how much of a factor that might be. And sometimes my original Bb6 fingering works as well or better than my newer one, so perhaps my old fix no longer fits my modified setup.
So- what I ask is--- what fingerings would YOU use for this interval? I realize I have never tried alternate fingerings for Eb6, I'm always using R o x x | x o o (B/F# key) (G#/D# key). And what embouchure or mind tricks might you use? ...so that you could be absolutely certain your final big Bb6 would be clean every single time? Think exposed spot at the climax of a big show night after night... and if you mess up the note everybody will know it.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2015-08-09 08:13)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2015-08-09 08:27
Play the as: TR oxx / oox (Eb/Ab))
Play the as: TR (G# throat) xxx / (C/F) xxx (Eb/Ab)
...GBK
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-08-09 08:45
GBK- Thanks- can't wait to try it! (Too quiet for that in my house at 12:37 AM. Would not go over well.)
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-08-09 10:38
Per this Board, someone suggested just the third finger of the left hand (NOTHING ELSE) for that Bb (can also just use second finger to make it higher) and since then I have used almost nothing else since.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-08-09 15:19
I'd try....
TRXXX 0X0 + throat G# key
sluring to....
TRXXX XXX with C#/G# (left hand little finger) and F/C (right hand little finger)
If that fingering doesn't work for the top B flat, try the fingerings Paul suggests above (I've only had the 2nd finger recommended, works well for Martino Set 1st mvt, but will try the 3rd finger next time I play)
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Author: blazian
Date: 2015-08-10 06:41
I second using only LH2 for a high Bb. If I were going up chromatically, it'd be RT OXX G# | OOO, but otherwise the first option. Obviously the results will vary from clarinet to clarinet.
- Martin
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-08-10 08:35
Thanks, all of you, for the suggestions! After 1 day of experimenting, I think I see some trends- but too soon to report. Stay tuned.
GBK--- you said, "Play the Bb6 as: TR (G# throat) xxx / (C/F) xxx (Eb/Ab)". Today I tried to hold down both the C/F and Eb/Ab with my right pinky. Now I realize I could have played C/F with left pinky. Or am I misinterpreting this?
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2015-08-11 05:21)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2015-08-10 10:05
Stan -
Play the C/F key with the left pinky, the Eb/Ab key with the right pinky.
...GBK
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-08-11 03:33
GBK- OK that works, but about half the time slurring up from Eb6 I get Gb6 instead of or before the Bb6. It's more reliable with a break, but I don't want a break.
All of my options are cleaner with a break, or with lower volume or less vibrato on the Eb6. But I want ff-fff vibrato Eb6 slurred cleanly to ff-fff Bb6. There could be many valid musical or esthetic reasons to choose something else, but I refuse to accept the reason to change being that I cannot reliably perform it the way I conceived it.
Stubborn cuss that I am, I will continue to beat on this until I defeat it. Then, I might decide I really don't want it that way, LOL. Much of my generation thinks this way- we were taught by Captain Kirk... "I am captain of this ship, and it will follow whatever course I set for it, or I will order its destruction." However, I have not yet destroyed a clarinet out of frustration- at least not literally.
Edited to add- And as I commented on another thread about E6- I realized I have not recently studied Tom Ridenour's "Clarinet Fingerings" about this Eb6 to Bb6 question. So I shall.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2015-08-11 19:13)
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-08-12 09:27
I needed a short break from scales tonight so I've tried all the options given above and they do work well. The best one for me in this circumstance seems to be one not mentioned yet, although it a variation of GBK's suggestion.
Eb: TR oxx / oox (Eb/Ab)
Bb: R (no thumb) xxx / (C/F) xxx
It also happens to be a fingering I'm used to in arpeggios, so that may have something to do with it.
Ok, back to scales!
Edit: Ok, I just realized that the OP mentioned this fingering (with the only difference being the C# key which is just for tuning). I obviously should have just stuck with the scales.
Anders
Post Edited (2015-08-12 09:32)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-08-12 17:33
nellsonic- thanks for trying! And it is helpful to know I'm using the right approach. Unless I find or somebody shares an as-yet unnamed magic combination.
All of them work pretty well in isolated play, it's when I try it at the end of the full song I have the most trouble (such a disappointment when it fails). And that makes it pretty hard to test the oddball fingerings- I have to learn them well enough to use "automatically" when I get to the trouble spot. I shouldn't reject a combo unless I can do it accurately and Bb6 still sputters.
So far my best is TRXXX 0X0 + throat G# key to my original R (no thumb) xxx (C#/G# key) / (C/F) xxx - pretty close to donald's suggestion. But I still am fiddling with a couple of others. I am planning to get a Versa X soon to replace my $6 eBxx BG clone, maybe that will cure this issue and others. Hey, it could happen.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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