 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-03 19:04
I read the article Greg Smith recommended in one of the threads earlier today, and it is an excellent article. If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's the interview with Robert Marcellus (go to Gregory Smith's topic and get the details to find it).
I was impressed with the master's feelings about today's clarinet tones. He said, "I wish we had more of the old recordings to listen to as far as clarinet sound is concerned. I think about clarinet sound today, the way I feel about orchestral performances today, and there are a lot of very fine performances, but not really great, great performances. I am inclined to feel that way about clarinet sound today. It seems to me to be coming a little bit off the wall and not as beautiful as it used to be."
Sadly, I never had the opportunity to hear any of those old masters, but I want to encourage all of us to spend more time listening and working toward better tones on our instruments. It doesn't just come suddenly one day when we get our new instruments and great mouthpieces--it comes from many hours of hard work and lots of listening. The instrument can be quite beautiful when played by someone who has spent hours upon hours alone in his/her studio practicing and striving for a great tone. Great technical skills are a must, but I stop and listen when I hear a truly beautiful tone!
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Author: Kim
Date: 2001-05-03 21:13
Agreed! Sometimes, I just spend a practice session listening to my tone and asking myself how to improve. That usually winds up into me criticizing myself and getting frustrated! :-)
Happy clarinetting,
Kim
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-03 21:44
Kim,
Yes, I agree. But, I find that after a while I actually begin to hear improvement and eventually have compliments from my director or someone like that as to the nice sound I'm getting. I think we just don't improve fast enough for ourselves and we are our own worst critic.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2001-05-03 21:59
With the beautiful and well-recorded tones of contemporary players like John Davies, David Schifrin, Harold Wright, Chuck West, Bob Marcellus and Sabina Meyer to name a few...I'd be curious to know what an "off the wall" tone of today specifically means and who are these great past players "as they used to be" with a superior sound to these?
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-05-03 23:57
I wonder if this alludes to the popularization of lesser talents on record, or if it relates to live performances?
I have also noted that my hearing has yet to improve as I get older.
I have begun to catalog players on record, looking for the best mix of their performances and quality recordings.
I listen to Buddy Wright's K. 622 and Brahms Op. 120 with a sense of awe.
I listen to Im-Soo Lee and get chills. Sabine Meyer makes me want to take up the Tuba. Dave Shiffrin makes me want to move next door to the Lincoln center.
Who says there aren't Giants walking among us?
anji
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Author: Shelly
Date: 2001-05-04 01:33
One thing that I have found helpful is recording myself. Sometimes I am so intent on playing the music off the paper I don't really hear what I am playing. When sit back and listen to it off a tape I can hear problems with the tone.
shelly
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-04 02:31
Ken said, "With the beautiful and well-recorded tones of contemporary players like John Davies, David Schifrin, Harold Wright, Chuck West, Bob Marcellus and Sabina Meyer to name a few..."
Since the article was an interview with Marcellus, I guess he didn't want to include himself as a great. Certainly he was a great talent. I believe there are many among us today who deserve that title--. But it wasn't my opinion I was quoting. I just thought it was interesting.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2001-05-04 04:21
Undeniably, Dr. Marcellus was a virtuoso among his peers and major 20th century influence/pioneer in the classical field. But he was also the consummate teacher, epitome of a gentlemen and earned the reputation as a humble man. In context of the article, he's listing his own teachers' as having great tones and recordings. As masterful and well informed it is, it's still his opinion, his own personal interpretation based on his experience and simply not grounded in "fact". There's no right answer, like the diversity of music itself, it's subjective and the answer lies in the mind, ears, freewill and choice of the listener. Food for thought, how many players has anyone ever heard (in Marcellus' class) bold enough to publicly state that ANY aspect of their playing not alone their tone reproduction is/was BETTER than their teachers? Especially a world-class player they studied with and revere? Naturally, Marcellus wouldn't mention himself in the same sentence along side his mentors.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-05-04 14:17
The point I was making was not an absolute right and wrong--just an observation that the vast majority of clarinet players don't work on their tone as much as their technique of "playing the notes." While playing the notes is absolutely vital, I think we need to remember how nice it is to hear a magnificent tone.
There are many wonderful clarinetists out there today. The great ones have great tones.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-05-04 19:39
In his interview, Marcellus recommends listening to the young Robert McGinnis when he was in the Philadelphia Orchestra, Daniel Bonade in Philadelphia and Cleveland and Ralph McLane in Philadelphia.
I'm not sure which Philadelphia Orchestra recordings have McGinnis solos, but they would be the early ones under Stokowski. There have been many Stokowski/Philadelphia reissues, all of which will have McGinnis or Bonade playing on them.
When Bonade left Philadelphia, he went to Cleveland under Artur Rodzinski. Anthony Gigliotti has said that Bonade played even better in Cleveland than he did in Philadelphia. There's a series of reissues called "The Rodzinski Legacy" that show off his playing beautifully. I have gotten several of them, and the clarinet playing is wonderful.
McLane is harder to find. He played in Philadelphia under Ormandy in the late 40s and early 50s, before stereo, and Ormandy re-recorded everything in stereo, so few of the mono records have been reissued. One very good one has, however -- the Dvorak Cello Concerto with Piatigorsky as soloist. The piece is practically a cello and clarinet concerto, there are so many clarinet solos. Everyone should get this to hear McLane's wonderful tone.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ken
Date: 2001-05-04 22:31
Excellent information Ken, I'm on it!
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Author: John Colbert, Jr
Date: 2001-05-06 02:20
Thanks for the info - Dvorak Cello Concerto - and Ralph Mclane - at one time I had 78s of Brahms 4th with Ormandy and Philadelphia with Ralph Mclane - Are you aware of Mclane's ercording of the Brahms Trio - I heard that 15 years ago or so it was produced on vinyl ? Thanks again for the tip regarding the Dvorak - gotta go get it !
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-05-07 14:49
John -
McLane's Brahms Trio was reissued around 1970 as an LP on the Grenadilla label, which specialized in clarinet music. It's the only single-sided LP I've ever seen. Unfortunately, there was lots of equalization used, and for me it's unlistenable, even if it is McLane. I've listened to the 78s at the New York Public Library, which sounded much better. As far as I know, the recording hasn't been issued on CD, which is a pity. Rich Gilbert, who owned Grenadilla, has issued one CD, so he may reissue the McLane Brahms. I just hope he remasters it.
McLane also played the Schubert Octet and the Beethoven Septet (both of which were written for clarinet-playing princes and so have clarinet leads) at a live concert with the Budapest Quartet at the Library of Congress around 1950. This was recorded and was made available to classical music radio stations. The Bridge label has been reissuing some of these concert recordings, so there may be hope that this one will appear.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Kenwrick Chan
Date: 2002-11-08 01:34
Thanks to Ken I picked up the Dvorak the year previously. It may be out of print. When I ordered it from Tower I had to purchase a used copy (store demo).
Turns out there is Ormandy boxed set (from Germany) that has Dvorak as well as several other pieces. It's called Eugene Ormandy Maestro Brillante. Do a search on www.google.com and you'll see several references to it. It may be a Tower exclusive in the US.
I paid $31.99 for it which includes 10 CDs (gee. $3.20 a CD!). Here's the CD listing
Beethoven Piano Concerto No.3, Arrau (1947 - Mclane?)
Beethoven Piano Concerto No.4, Casadesus (1947 - Mclane)
Mussorgsky Pictures at Exhbition (1937 - McGinnis)
Dvorak Cello Concerto, Piatigorsky (1947 - Mclane)
Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto, Levant (1947 - Mclane)
Tchaikovsky Sym 6. (1936/37 - McGinnis)
Brahms Concerto for Violin & Cello, Heifetz/Feuermann (1939 - McGinnis)
Grieg Piano Concerto, Rubinstein (1942 - Portnoy)
Griffes The Pleasure Dome of Kubla Khan (1934 - McGinnis)
Rachmaninov Piano Con 1/3, Rachmaninov (1939/40 - McGinnis)
Straus Don Quiote, Feuermann (1940 - McGinnis)
Sinfonia Domestica (1938 - McGinnis)
Brucker Sym 7 (1935 - McGinnis)
Sibelius Sym 1 (1941 - Portnoy)
Sibelius Lemminkainer's Return No. 4 (1940 McGinnis)
Ravel Piano Con, Casadesus (1947-Mclane
Mahler Sym 2 (1935 - McGinnis)
Schonberg Verklare Nacht (1934 -McGinnis)
Miaskovsky Sym 21 (1947 - Mclane)
Barber Essay No. 1 (1940 - McGinnis)
I guess McGinnis and Portnoy are both listed as being first chair in 1940 so it's one or the other. I haven't played them one after another, but I think the Sony reissue of the Dvorak Cello Concerto sounds better than this transfer. Perhaps it's my imagination. There are other boxed sets in the "Maestro" series that look good as well.
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