 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2015-08-01 12:43
(3-8-2015 New audio!!!)To those who think this first few note is too flat, please check this video to see if it is better or not.I take this recording three days after the first recording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3aOe59zocA&feature=youtu.be
This time when I record I check with a tuner. It seem funny to me that I play the first phrase every note 20 cents higher already. But the first note still sound a little bit low at the audio.
Again, every helpful comment is welcome. It is a practice demo, it is not perfect and I want to improve.
(original post)
Hi, this is my practice recording of Busoni clarinet concertino. I played with a background music produced by myself. It is a home production.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwnyBImXlCs&feature=youtu.be
Because I am playing with a digital background music, some time the clarinet and piano are not play exactly together. I know there are some mistakes, especially at the last page. Sorry about all of this.
Anything about clarinet playing, recording technique or audio production technique, etc…. is welcome to discuss about.
Any helpful comment is welcome. Thanks.
Post Edited (2015-08-03 07:29)
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2015-08-01 22:08
I usually do not like to comment about someone's practice recording and I should have known better (deleted)
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
Post Edited (2015-08-03 03:19)
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2015-08-02 04:47
Thanks for all comment.
I agree that the first note doesn't sound good. But I am not sure it is the tuning problem or other reason. I check the tuning of first note by looping it on my computer. (I am using cubase 7le, which doesn't have a auto-tune function.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf2T1fVswwY&feature=youtu.be
In the test, the tuner stay close to the middle in most of the time.
Maybe a little bit higher is better? I know that in the pure intonation that the third of a major chord is a little bit higher than the equal temperament.
Of course I can sing.
I just play the background music by a speaker. I didn't use the headphone.
Post Edited (2015-08-02 04:50)
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2015-08-02 08:09
Thanks for your help.
Actually I do it to prepare a exam, I will practice with my piano later, that is why I don't use the headphone.
I think the problem of first few notes may caused by the EQ. I am not a professional about audio edit.
I upload a version without any digital edit. It sound better to me. It will be kind if you check the first few note is better or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTIj5DzZuDk&feature=youtu.be
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2015-08-02 17:23
"I know that in the pure intonation that the third of a major chord is a little bit higher than the equal temperament"
Incorrect- in pure intonation the tuning of the third in a major chord would be exactly 14 cents LOWER than in equal temperament.
As you are playing with a piano however, any discussion of pure intonation, even though the major third is not in the piano at the opening, seems unnecessary.
To me, your first note sounds a tiny bit flat, although the attack is slightly flatter and the pitch comes up quite quickly. In addition, I find the sound on this first note to be quite "thin", almost as if you are having to squeeze the note out. It would be better to have a fingering, or a reed, or something else (impossible to say without actually being with you in person) that would allow you to relax into this note rather than having to force it up to pitch by biting.
Which leads me to my last point: I seriously question the value of posting recordings for criticism here. Far better to find a good teacher that you can work with in person.
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2015-08-02 17:46
>>Liquorice
Of course I have a teacher to work with. I post here is because I want to hear more how other people feel.
Thanks for your opinion, I 100% sure I am not biting the mouthpiece when I play. It is not easy to record a good quality recording at home with non-professional equipment. Also, I am not professional about music recording. Sorry if my recording make you have any wrong idea about my playing.
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Author: brycon
Date: 2015-08-02 20:25
Liquorice,
Great post, man. Thanks for being one of the voices of reason here. It seems as though people go overboard with pure intonation (I've even had people tell me they play excerpts with purely tuned thirds and fifths--great: you're in tune with an imaginary orchestra but out of tune with yourself...).
To complicate things, I think we also hear functionally, e.g. the leading tone wants to rise so it's placed slightly higher, the seventh of a chord wants to fall so it's placed slightly lower, etc. So if one was playing the third of a c major chord, an e, they would play it lower (as you mentioned), then if the c major chord was given a functional context and became an applied dominant of f, the third would rise slightly from where it was. And finally, if on the f chord, the e was sustained and became the seventh, it would need to be lowered. In a simple chord progression, therefore, you could have numerous placements for a single note.
I only point this out to show how complicated of an issue tuning can be. Of course, playing with a piano, as you pointed out, is quite simple.
Efsf081,
Liquorice is correct. You start below the pitch and scoop up into it, which should concern you because the beginnings of pitches are usually sharp on the clarinet. Once you're on a pitch, however, you have the timbre of being sharp--as though you're squeezing (the pitch isn't sharp; you have the sound of someone playing sharp).
You may not have good home recording equipment, but recording equipment doesn't significantly alter pitch. Furthermore, the recording quality is good enough for us to hear you have some sort of embouchure/voicing issue resulting in a thin sound.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-08-02 20:36
efsf081 wrote:
> It is not easy to record a good quality
> recording at home with non-professional equipment. Also, I am
> not professional about music recording. Sorry if my recording
> make you have any wrong idea about my playing.
Even professional recording engineers recording established, professional players using professional recording equipment often don't get it right, at least not in comparison to the live sound they were recording. That''s why listening to live recordings is so much better to establish (and refresh) tonal concepts. I've been amazed at times by how wrong my impressions of well-known players, based on recordings, turned out to be when I finally heard them play in person.
Anyone's criticism, positive or negative, will be based on (1) the quality of the sound he hears (which is the sum of the recording and the playback equipment plus whatever compression algorithm is in use to make the file transmissible) and (2) his own personal musical biases. The real problem with posting recordings on a relatively anonymous medium like this one is that you have no real idea who the responders are or what biases they are carrying into the process. There are lots things that I carp about when I listen to even the biggest names in music performance, not just clarinetists. But that says far more about what I want to hear and very little if anything about their playing. So, I'm more in agreement with Liquorice than not simply because you can't evaluate the criticism that you get. It's good, certainly, to get a variety of input from sources you know and respect. But it's better to put more trust in your own ears and those of your teacher, whom you know far better than you do any of us, and less in anonymous cyber-critics whose experience and point of view you can't know.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-08-02 21:19
Since so much of the discussion has centered around tuning (especially the first note):
brycon wrote:
> Of course, playing with a piano, as you pointed
> out, is quite simple.
This is an interesting point and is a small detail that I wondered about as I listened to some of the recording. I find playing in tune with a piano to be not as simple as you suggest - the piano's tuning can't be fixed on the fly and depends a great deal on the original tuning's accuracy (and in some subtle ways the tuner's overall approach) and the amount of time that has elapsed since the tuning was done. The clarinet has to do all of the adjusting that's needed.
But, then, what are the ramifications of using a digital version of a piano, where pitch is dependent on the tuning algorithm. What kind of tuning is it programmed to mimic? To what extent is learning to play in tune with it as unrealisitic as tuning to an electronic tuner?
Karl
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Author: brycon
Date: 2015-08-02 21:56
Karl,
I meant simple in a philosophical sense: you don't have to worry about various tuning systems or chord functions; you just have to match the piano. You are correct in that one needs to have a very fine sense of intonation to play with piano, because it, unlike wind or string instruments, can't adjust during a performance.
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Author: brycon
Date: 2015-08-03 04:49
Liquorice,
If you read this, I'd like to send you an email. So you don't have to give your's out to the bboard, if you could send me one with your contact info (my email is available by clicking on my name), it would be greatly appreciated. Cheers!
Silversorcerer, I'm pretty sure he just posted the same recording but with some sort of digital alteration; at any rate, the note still scoops and sounds thin. And it's quite easy to play that e without squeezing or scooping if the clarinet's played properly.
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2015-08-03 06:55
Thanks for all reply. As I say at beginning, every helpful comment is welcome.
It seem funny to me, some people think recording equipment is not important to a recording. I am not quite agree with it. I always recording my practice, and I feel that recording equipment is a very important to the recording quality.
Again I uplod a new audio, this time I used a audio interface, a mic and headphone.
You can hear the different clearly. It is played by the same player (within three days).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3aOe59zocA&feature=youtu.be
This time when I record I check with a tuner. It seem funny to me that I play the first phrase every note 20 cents higher already. But the first note still sound a little bit low at the audio.
Again, every helpful comment is welcome. It is a practice demo, it is not perfect and I want to improve.
Post Edited (2015-08-03 11:57)
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2015-08-03 22:22
Have you tried a "long" High E? (G above on top of the staff + the G#/Ab key...RH Eb Pinky for pitch, usually not needed) It's certainly more 'secure' feeling in general.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2015-08-03 22:41
It's in that part of the register that doesn't happen on my clarinets without squeezing, like that gliss in Rhapsody in Blue.
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This is entirely incorrect - you should never have to squeeze to get any note in tune. It's more a matter of air speed and voicing (and of course, a correct set-up).
Squeezing will only result in a "squeezed" tone - thin and lacking in color.
To demonstrate this to my students I will slur from low E to C7 using almost no embouchure pressure. (and no, I do not use a resistant set-up).
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2015-08-04 12:28
Thanks for all. this will been my conclusion of what I got from this post.
I hope everyone whom give me some advice can listen to my new recording, you will find that you help me a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3aOe59zocA&feature=youtu.be
This is what I got from this post.
1. This remind me that the first few notes will decide how people think of your whole performance.
2. Recording equipment is so important to a recording. If you compare my first and last recording, you will hear the different clearly.
3. Tuner won't make your pitch fit to the piano. In this case I find that the first phrase sound better when I play a little bit higher.
Last, because so many people try to give some advice about the first few notes. I think I need to make it clear. I totally agree about what Liquorice said: It.....impossible to say without actually being with you in person.
I have a teacher to work with and I am not trying to find a online teacher at here.
I think these are the reason why my first few notes sound bad in first recording.
1. Recording equipment/process
2. I need to press the record bottom and play these notes quickly, I didn't prepare them well.
Post Edited (2015-08-04 13:22)
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The Clarinet Pages
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