 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ChuChu
Date: 2015-07-11 19:35
My doubts about cocobolo being a stable wood has been realized. I purchased a MOBA 62.5mm barrel for my Selmer Signature clarinet in Oct. 2013 and now the barrel is unplayable. The response has really suffered as I can't get a good staccato and there is a grunt at the start of every note. I have a grenadilla MOBA barrel and I don't have this issue. I can literally see that the bore has warped and is out of round. Anybody else had this issue with this wood?
BMS is not offering me a refund or exchange because it is past 60 days.
I am never buying cocobolo clarinet parts again.
Post Edited (2015-07-11 19:37)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-07-11 19:47
Cocobolo, kingwood, rosewood and other exotic timbers are desirable for a variety of reasons but aren't as stable as well seasoned grenadilla, so anyone wanting an instrument or accessories made from less dense timbers should expect that.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: James S
Date: 2015-07-11 21:54
Cocobolo suffers from a low density (compared to grenadilla or mopani) and hence (like boxwood) requires much more TLC during the manufacturing process, including varnish or a bore insert to discourage warping by limiting the wood's contact with moisture. However, most makers don't give the extra TLC. If you wanted a cocobolo horn I would stick with Dietz or Schwenk und Seggelke. Their materials will be more stable...buuuuuut cocobolo is still going to be cocobolo!
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-07-11 23:07
My, we are hearing a lot lately about folks not really standing behind exotic and high end products. Warranties on such things are supposed to protect the purchasers, not just give the suppliers some language to hide behind. For shame. To me that means the bad outcomes are too common for the suppliers to fix, they'd lose too much $$$. Fine, then- admit it, tell us honestly what % go bad and how quickly (in particular how many purchasers have been left holding the bag), while we're still deciding whether to buy from you.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2015-07-11 23:30)
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Author: ChuChu
Date: 2015-07-12 13:05
BMS seems to push the cocobolo wood hard in their marketing of clarinets so I am glad I experienced this problem personally so that I won't use this wood as a barrel, bell or a clarinet. However, when the barrel was new, it had excellent response, tone, intonation, and nuance in the sound and that is why I bought it. I think this wood warps even if I don't play it. It just distorts as time progresses. I now see why Buffet, Selmer, and Yamaha never use cocobolo in any of their clarinets.
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2015-07-12 16:05
But many important makers, although not big company, use cocobolo in barrel, bell and the whole clarinet. Selmer use rose wood for contra-alto and contra-bass. Charles Neidich is using a boxwood clarinet. Boxwood is much more low density than cocobolo or rosewood.
I have some cocobolo barrels, never have problem with them.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-07-13 04:08
Yamaha make oboes from kingwood as do Howarth, Loree, Marigaux, Rigoutat and others. Howarth also offer cocobolo oboes but they also partially sleeve the top joint bore and bush the top joint toneholes to safeguard against cracking. They also offered cocobolo clarinets, but they didn't have lined joints.
Yamaha offer lined oboe and clarinet top joints (Duet+) - on their pro and intermediate level oboes and also on the 400 series clarinet - I don't think they have a sleeved barrel but grenadilla barrels rarely crack if fitted with socket rings.
I personally think anyone making cocobolo bodied instruments should line the top joint bore as well as bush the toneholes. Also line the bore and maybe sockets of the barrel as well if that's possible. The only sleeved barrels I know of from a major maker were on Selmer 10G clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2015-07-13 04:15
Would they be able to rebore it for you?
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2015-07-13 04:43
Disclaimer. I make and sell custom barrels.
Depending on many factors, wood can change dimensions. It is most likely to occur early on--in the first year or so. This is why I include a note to my recipients about bore changes, and advise them to contact me if certain changes are noted. The bore most often will assume an ovoid shape, and this can be helped to some extent. Sometimes, as Ed noted, it can be re-bored. After a significant period of time, I do charge for this, but the fee is nominal.
I suggest that the original poster contact the seller directly about the specifics, and see if the bore is not within specs. If it can be fixed, there would likely be a fee, but certainly less than buying a new barrel. Alternatively, contact another technician or barrel artisan to see if they would be willing to check it. Be aware that it might be beyond fixing. BTW, I personally do not make internal synthetic sleeve type repairs.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-07-13 07:40
Never had a problem with cocobolo barrels, having quite a few.
Though cocobolo is definitely softer and less denser than grenadilla.
I've also had a chance to measure several old grenadilla barrels loosing their dimensions from years of playing.
Mopani was mentioned here, it is actually much softer that cocobolo, and I believe I heard one of the best sound from a mopani barrel.
Having said this, dimensions of the bore seem to be making most of the difference rather than the material.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-07-13 08:19
If the wood has swollen, they might be able to re-ream the bore and it will be OK. Be sure to extra swab and carefully dry out less dense hardwood items.
For lower density material, darker sounding barrel without all the problems and expense, try the Ridenour hard rubber barrels. Available in C or R bore, depending on MP specifications. Hard rubber won't warp and swell and shrink like wood.
Had very good luck with Robert Scott barrels ... nice sound with buffet and M13 MP ... and I think they are nylon, so stable and trouble free.
I think lighter materials like hard rubber and some plastics have a warmer, mellow, darker sound because they damp some of the overtones, taking some of the edge out of the sound.
Tom
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Author: ClaV
Date: 2015-07-13 08:35
It is hard for me to understand how hard rubber with 30-40 wt.% of sulfur can be called a very stable material (its bleaching due to sulfur decomposition to sulfuric acid is notorious, e.g. with old mouthpieces). Let's not even start with stabilizing metal oxides of good old Chedeville era...
Accubore barrels use even dense (compared to plastic and wood) aluminum; there are also metal-lined barrels with even denser material. They are not overly bright, in my experience. If anything, more powerful sound is produced; again, dimensions of the bore being more important than material!
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Author: ChuChu
Date: 2015-07-13 09:38
I've asked BMS and he is going charge me a fee to rebore and fix this barrel and I know that is not worth it because this thing has gone really bad. And who knows if I will like the way it will sound afterwards. I like the Backun MoBa barrels but this wood is the problem. I'm going to try find a real good grenadilla barrel from them.
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Author: CEC
Date: 2015-07-13 17:17
Clark Fobes now offers sleeved cocobolo barrels.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2015-07-14 07:18
I would trust the craftsman who made the barrel to be able to fix the problem. If you are hesitant, I would send it to Allan Segal, who does excellent work to get his assessment. It is certainly worth a shot.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-07-14 07:20
I think some barrel makers have often resorted to hard rubber cores to improve the durability.
I'd stick with Blackwood or sleeved hardwoods like Cocobolo.
Surprised that your barrel warped so radically!
Tom
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Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2015-07-14 11:24
I have several Backun barrels and bells - maybe 4-5 barrels and 4 bells? Most are cocobolo, and I've not experience a single problem with any of them, and my oldest ones are at least 5-6 years old, if not older.
Is your clarinet exposed to extreme temperature/humidity changes? I'm at a loss for an explanation otherwise - I know many players who play on cocbolo instruments, barrels, bells, etc., and have not heard of a single problem as you have described. Maybe David is right - a humidified case may be for you.
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2015-07-14 18:45
Of course, oil the heck out of a century-old clarinet. Or a Penzell-Mueller. Or a Robert. Or any clarinet that will never be played in a professional orchestra, probably never even played in public. As a professional clarinetist, I object to being labeled as crazy by a person who is squeezing a clarinet joint together with clamps to correct an oval bore and close a crack on a clarinet that is simply nothing but cracks. That tenon end looks like a piece of firewood. Can it be played? Maybe in the same sense that a archaeological find Viking long boat can be patched together enough to float, or that one COULD go to war with a musket. But this world and the world of people whose job it is to play the modern clarinet in such a way that other people will buy tickets are far removed from each other. Yes, there was a manufacturer back in the 50s or 60s who recommended bore oil, and made it a warranty condition. Today's manufacturers do not. We could dredge up all kinds of recommendations for things that were considered salubrious 50 years ago but now are known to be either ineffective or harmful.
This bore oil thing is a non-issue for professional players, who have formed their maintenance habits through experience. For those who lack such experience, the issue may not be so clear. For the record, I'm not telling anyone not to use bore oil. But I don't, nobody in my section (including oboists) does, no professional clarinetist of my acquaintance does, to my knowledge. Exercise caution.
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