 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2015-06-24 17:48
Is projection of a sound inherently the player or the mouthpiece? I ask because I'd been struggling on a mouthpiece that has a beautiful sound but just didn't project, and I've recently switched back to my old Gregory Smith which seems to effortlessly project.
More anecdotal evidence to support this is recent ensemble recordings that proves that the Smith mouthpiece projects and the other one doesn't. However, my teacher was absolutely convinced that it wasn't the mouthpiece, it was me.
What does everyone think?
(I know it's not that black and white, obviously the player and the mouthpiece are a team and together create projection, I just feel one might have more of an influence than the other.)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2015-06-24 19:03
There will be lots of opinions of this I'm sure. Yes, I agree that it is both. Generally speaking, a bright tone will probably project more that a dark tone so the player becomes more important in the case of a dark tone. One can always project more in any case by forcing but that can and will cause an unfocused tone in most cases. If a tone has enough volume in depth as it leaves the instrument it should project regardless. So in that case it's mostly the player. How much air and pressure behind the air is used to push the tone out without being forced. Support from ones diaphram instead of pushing from the upper chest or throat would be a way of doing that. Keeping the air passage free of obstruction always goes a long way in achieving that to. It was rumored that the famous clarinet player, Anthony Giglotti, who used to be principal in the Philadelphia orchestra years ago had to develop his "bright" sound and use a great deal of diaphram pressure to project over the orchestra when they played in the Academy of Music years ago. As I said, rumor. But when I took some lessons with him he stressed so much pressure forcing my tone that I had to back off and stop taking lessons with him. Soon after I took some lessons with Robert Marcellus, principal of the Clevlend orchestra at the time and he was very satisfied with the both the quality and projection of my tone. His, in my opinion, was mellower than Giglotti's, more to my liking. So there's a balance between projection and forcing. You have to find the balance both with the mouthpice that allows you to get the tone you want and your ability to make it happen. I hope this helps.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2015-06-24 19:41
Well, both mouthpiece and player are important but some mouthpieces just project easier than others. You can work with the new mouthpiece to let it project better as your teacher suggests. But apparently your Gregory Smith mouthpiece does not need that amount of effort. If you are pleased with the sound of the GS mouthpiece I would stay with that.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-06-24 20:30
It is a difficult question to answer because you also have to consider the context. If you are in an orchestral setting and your sound needs to be more prominent to to be heard, then the solution could very well be to find equipment that allows more overtones (upper partials) in your core sound.
Recently a colleague of mine went back to a mouthpiece he previously abandoned because what he heard was "bees buzzing in his head." Another person tried that mouthpiece and what my friend heard was a darn good mouthpiece. So he tried it in orchestra and he got unsolicited comments on how much louder (and better) he sounded that evening.
I think there needs to be serious consideration about what it is you NEED for your situation versus what pleases you from the other end of the horn. Sometimes the two differ enough for it to be an issue of what your true professional goals are. Certainly there are more than just a few stories of star struck students being a bit surprised with the sound of their biggest icon when heard in person and up close.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2015-06-24 20:49
The bees buzz comment is very interesting- I've always shied away from a buzzy sound for obvious reasons however just this afternoon after a rehearsal where I felt I sounded buzzy, a trumped player commented (positively) on my sound! Very interesting.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-06-24 20:59
Too bad there is no way to sit in the audience and hear yourself play ...
Perhaps a binaural recording (with a dummy head) and played back through high quality headphones would approach this idea.
Tom
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-06-24 23:10
My recollection of an earlier generation (50s 60s) of French players with much reedier tones than used today was that they never failed to come across the orchestra rgardless of the volume so the harmonic structure of the sound clearly has a big part in this.
After all you can rarely NOT hear an oboe solo, though sadly even some modern oboe players seem now to be bent on getting a "darker" (to me duller) sound!
Many colleagues I have played beside over the years seem to be trying to produce a tone that sounded to themselves like the sound they heard their favorite artisits make but when heard from afar.
Yes the answer must be both player and equipment involved but you have to separate what you hear from what the audience will perceive. And clearly that also depends on the playing situation e.g. band/orchestra in a large hall versus chamber or solo work in a more intimate setting.
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Author: LaurieBell
Date: 2015-06-25 01:01
In a recent post I asked advice about isolating intonation problems, and someone suggested a little experiment of changing set-ups with someone else to see if the intonation problem was the horn or the player.
I asked a close friend to help me out and so we swapped set-ups to see what would happen. (By set up I mean, I played her clarinet, barrel, mouthpiece and reed -- the exactly set-up she would be playing -- and she played mine.)
The first note I played on her set-up was an open G and it sounded like a Mac Truck horn it was so loud. What was happening, I think, is that her (very old) mouthpiece had very little resistance. (I sometimes get this backwards, but I think it had a closed facing). This friend tends to have a very loud sound, and now I know why.
Years ago I played on a mouthpiece like that and when someone tried my set-up, they got the same "Mac Truck horn sound." I recall now that I used to have a very loud sound too.
When my current friend tried my set-up, her tone was not overly loud, AND, it was very beautiful. I attribute that to my nice Buffet clarinet but more to my Brad Behn mouthpiece.
All that to say, at least for me, the mouthpiece has a big impact on the volume (and of course on the quality of the tone.)
By the way, when I bought my Brad Behn mouthpiece last year, I bought two with different facings. One projects a lot more, and so I use that for concert band. The other has a more beautiful tone (in my opinion) and I use that for chamber work. With those two mouthpieces, I can now play almost any reed in a box of 20.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-06-25 01:17
As far as "knowing" what you sound like from the back of the hall, I'm pretty old school about that. Instead of procuring fancy recording equipment, you just need to keep track of what you did and how you sounded when most people you talk to (trust) liked the result. Sooner or later a clear mental picture emerges (ie. I need to feel "this" or hear "that" to get those results again).
............Paul Aviles
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Author: PaulIsaac
Date: 2015-06-25 12:56
As a clarinetist I'm the equivalent of a 27 handicapper in golf, but I do appreciate a good clarinet sound and after listening to a few of your magnificent recordings on Soundcloud (Widmann, Stravinsky and Saint-Saens Mvts 3&4) I would suggest that you don't change a thing!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2015-06-25 17:05
You can't tell projection from an orchestra recording these days. When ever we recorded with the BSO we had microphones over the wind and string sections. In the old days there would be just a few in front of the orchestra but then they would use a great many and "balance" the recordings from the booth.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2015-06-25 17:06
You can't tell projection from an orchestra recording these days. When ever we recorded with the BSO we had microphones over the wind and string sections. In the old days there would be just a few in front of the orchestra but then they would use a great many and "balance" the recordings from the booth.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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