 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2015-06-15 19:33
It seems like the defining schools of Clarinetistry are coming back. Buffet player sounds are different than say Backun, Ridenour, Selmer.
Has a lot to do with tonal concept of course, but the players tonal concept tends to lead them to whatever their setup is, to get the most efficiency out of it.
Florida for instance now has 2 major teachers who are completely at the opposite ends of the spectrum equipment wise. I've had students who were Backun players who attended a Univ where the teacher was Buffet, and the student switched to Buffet. Other way around also.
Thoughts?
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2015-06-15 22:26
Students have always been at the mercy of their teachers' training and opinions. I was raised by Buffet people, my best long-term clarinet-only teacher, John Blount (principal chair WGN/NBC Symphony, Chicago 1927-1940) was a Buffet guy with Frank Wells mouthpieces. The 2 clarinet profs at NIU in the early seventies were both Buffet guys, one a little weird - had his students take their horns to a studio in Wisconsin where they had their keys "shaved" down to absolute minimum metal. I thought that was uncalled for, so I didn't get along well with him. My Prof did the Buffet thing and was also a Frank Wells guy, so we got along quite well. One of my best friends did college at Indiana Bloomington, where they were all Selmer guys, so, guess what he uses all the time! Now, I have migrated some, still love my 1969 R13, fully "Brannenized" - but mostly now for chamber work. I have migrated to older Selmer Series 10 horns, also "Brannenized" in Evanston, Illinois. My B-flat a 1978, and my A a 1976 10G. The A was also one of the few horns re-finished by the factory to full Gigliotti standards. I also have a 1974 Series 10 (also run through the Brannen's in Evanston) as a backup. When I want to have fun, out comes the Centered Tone, and now being summertime, with outdoor gigs - or any theaterwork - out comes the Ridenour Libertas.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2015-06-15 23:27
Back in 1988, I sent back a set of 10G Clarinets that Gigliotti picked out for me. Tried them, and they weren't "me".
I had previously been playing a Selmer 10G as my A, and a Buffet as my Bb, sold both to advanced students.
Boy, oh boy was he "upset". I was 25 years old, and he tried to treat me like a little child saying that it "was the most arrogant thing he had ever heard" (me sending back the Clarinets, and not just playing them for a while, but they were new, and I needed to get back the $ spent to purchase something else).
Ended up for the next 30 years playing on my Prestige R-13 set. He did eventually get over it, and when he couldn't make a Music Festival to teach/play, called on me to be his replacement.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2015-06-16 00:49
David- a question:
You played Buffet for 30 years and then you changed to Backun. Was there a corresponding change in your tonal concept?
I'd also be interested to hear if you had to change the way you blow when you play Backun? I think the way a person blows clearly affects whether an instrument will work for them or not.
I really can't get Backuns to play for me. Every note feels like it has a different resistance, the tuning is weird and the sound is generally dull. Clearly it's the way I'm playing them and not the instrument. Other people make them sound fantastic. If I didn't already know that, I would have come to the conclusion that they were terrible instruments. So I'm obviously blowing them wrong.
A few weeks ago I listened to over 40 clarinet players doing an audition behind a screen. After the audition I got the list of who was which number. It was interesting to check my notes and my impression of their sounds and compare it to which instruments they were using. The stiffest, thinnest, least flexible sounds came from Wurlitzer German-system players. Buffets sounded OK, but often lacked depth. The best sounds all came from people using Seggelke Boehm clarinets. Of course, that reflects my personal taste, but there were certainly tendencies coming from different makes of clarinet.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2015-06-16 01:14
David - I absolutely love your Gigliotti story! Most of my student life had long periods of confusing or angering teachers!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2015-06-16 01:16
Actually no - not at all. I had already changed my way of playing before I switched to the Backun Clarinets. Ricardo was a big influence on my sound. The tone that he gets was in my concept, but with the equipment I was playing, I wasn't completely happy. I sounded good, but not nearly as good as I do now.
Did you try a MoBa, or were you playing the Leblanc Legacy? The Legacy's are very good also (I do like them!!). I wouldn't imagine that you were playing on say a Protege, as I'd figure you would have gone for the higher level instrument.
I played Buffet for more like 39 years 
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-06-16 02:08
Gigliotti was in many ways a zealot about the 10G and his mouthpieces once they hit the market. But it's worth remembering that he had been for decades before that a strongly committed Buffet/Chedeville player. The playing concepts he tried to incorporate into the 10G and AG mouthpieces were extensions of what he considered the best qualities of his Cheds and of the R13s that Hans Moennig had created for him over the years.
I think that for many students the choice of teacher, to the extent that young students have choices of teachers and schools, is based on the concepts the student has already decided he or she wants to emulate. I think you're right that broad differences in sound concept may be diverging more now than at any time since the mid-1950s. The differences of the '50s were mostly based in national schools of playing. With digital distribution of recordings today, those national boundaries are mostly gone and the differences are almost cultish, focused on specific prolifically recorded players.
Of course, the instrument makers are producing clarinets with a wider range of designs that are meant to support those differences, often with the players collaborating (which is how the 10G evolved at the beginning). I'm a little surprised to read that your student switched clarinets - that he chose to study with the Buffet-oriented teacher at all. But you haven't said who the teacher or the university were, so maybe there were reasons that overrode the student's initial preferences.
Karl
Post Edited (2015-06-16 03:43)
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2015-06-16 04:09
KenJarczyk: Given the need for maintenance over time, how long after they worked on an instrument would you still consider it to be "Brannenized"? About ten years ago I asked about having them go through my Series 10 and they told me that, because of the difficulty obtaining replacement parts, they do not work on instruments that old. It seems to me that, since they were introduced, the Series 10, even if initially "Brannenized", would have had everything they did readdressed in a subsequent maintenance episodes. If you start with them when your instrument is new, will they continue to service your instrument when it has gotten old?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2015-06-16 06:44
The student was an ICA competition winner.
He didn't play the MoBa (he had an early Legacy). I couldn't imagine anyone going off of a MoBa, but guess it could happen.
Hmm, I think his Masters Degree teacher recently became a Backun Artist. Not for sure.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2015-06-16 07:29
Brannen Woodwinds in Evanston is a very exclusive repair facility. They must want to work on your clarinet. Once you've been a client, you have an in - with THAT particular clarinet. I've been fortunate that they've liked my horns. Many of us use the term "Brannenized" when the Brannens have done their magic. They manufacture their own bladder pads for the bottom joint, they cork the top, and address the tuning and performance of the horn as only they can. They apply teflon to various bumper-pad areas, so they stay quiet. Plus - the treatment really lasts! One of my horns has a zillion miles on it, still looks and plays perfect! Of course - it helps that I'm very persnickety (friends say "anal") about maintenance and daily cleaning. The Brannen's client list is a who's who of the clarinet community, as one time, about twenty years ago, one of my clarinets was in line, waiting for work - right after John Yeh, and before Larry Combs!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
Post Edited (2015-06-16 07:39)
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Author: kthln.hnsn
Date: 2015-06-16 07:42
Ah now I get it, thank you So needless to say, a country bumpkin clarinetist like me probably won't be getting my clarinets "brannenized" anytime soon ;P I suppose I shall survive...
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2015-06-16 09:57
Couldn't agree more that their work is right at the top. They only will service "professional model instruments" (I think that's the quote Linda told me several years back) but they'll fit you in if, as Ken put it, they like your instrument. But if you have a clarinet that fits that description they'll get you in, just be prepared to wait. And, while it isn't cheap, they're work is well worth the time and money.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2015-06-16 11:45
> They only will service "professional model instruments"
So I wonder how they would view a modern non-Prestige vanilla R13....
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2015-06-16 15:16
R-13 is now the "entry level" Pro Clarinet.
But no repairman would treat it like a student level instrument and turn their nose up at it.
Plenty of players still play that model Professionally.
Back in 1988 the Prestige was more exclusive, but now it is commonplace.
R-13 is still the bread and butter of the Buffet company I'd wager.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2015-06-16 20:44
In an answer to Monsterchef (you must cook, eh?) -
John Yeh is a Yamaha Artist, and I do believe the Brannens are his exclusive service agents.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2015-06-16 20:49
David, were your students who went to universities in Florida pressured by their teachers to switch instruments (Backun to Buffet, Buffet to Backun), or did they do it voluntarily? With the high cost of a college education, it seems like a needless waste of money for a young undergrad to feel pressured to change from one perfectly good clarinet to another.
There's no doubt that equipment does make a difference, but I'm reminded of Sherman Friedland's story about the time he switched mouthpieces (and clarinets) with David Glazer. Scroll down to "Your sound: “setup”, or sense?"
https://clarinetcorner.wordpress.com/?s=bright+sound
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2015-06-16 21:06
There may be "back door" entrances to Brannen clarinet services. For instance, if you have Greg Smith pick out your new Buffet (a service he advertizes on his website), it will come already set up by Brannen and will persumably be eligible for continued maintanence at the Brannen shop, even if it comes with a Chadash barrel.
I think different schools of clarinetistry may be emerging not only from the increased popularity of the MoBa but also interest in the Yamaha CSG models. After all, the esteemed player Michael Collins has now been playing a CSG for some time. Yes, he's British but he doesn't sound "British" in any of the old ways (Kell, DePeyer, Brymer) and his playing seems completely acceptable and even influential to most American clarinetists.
My impression is that American players enamored of the "ring tone" sound found in the best (and best set-up) Buffets are not going to switch to either the MoBa (even if they can afford it) or the Yamaha because neither of those instruments gives the same type of ring tone (or a player has to work excessively to get it). Clarinetists, however, who feel they are "fighting" the Buffet in an effort to produce a more covered, rounder, or darker tone, may decide they are better off on a Yamaha, or--if they can afford it--a MoBa. As David says, the desired sound begins in the mind, and the player then searches to find an instrument that will help produce it.
I would like to ask Liquorice if the players auditioning on S&S Boehm clarinets were using the boxwood or the grenadilla models? Were they playing the 1000 French bore model or the 3000 German bore model? These two have very different tonal coloration. Many of us are familiar with the sound of the boxwood instrument from Charles Neidich's performances and not so familiar with the sound of the grenadilla S&S.
Post Edited (2018-05-02 06:43)
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Author: brycon
Date: 2015-06-16 21:07
I don't think the instruments people play matters so much. In the Met opera orchestra, for example, people play Backun, Selmer, and Buffet, yet the section has a fairly unified sound. In the NY Phil, everyone plays Buffet, but Mark Nuccio and Anthony McGill--who both sound great--nonetheless have rather different sounds. It may be a generational thing: younger players seem to be shying away from the classic American orchestral tone with tons of ring and instead moving toward a more covered and cushion-like approach.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2015-06-16 21:17
Reportedly McGill was playing an Austrian Nick Kuckmeier Play Easy mouthpiece on his Buffet. This would certainly make the tone darker and more cushioned.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2015-06-16 22:37
I have 4 of the Play Easy Mouthpieces (one is an M) that I got from Wenzel (Berlin Phil)
Earlier today was teaching on Skype a Swiss Clarinetist (Orchestral and Soloist) who plays the Kuckmeier M.
Typically the Swiss Teachers insist on the Vandoren B40 I was told.
I still prefer my Backun L
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2015-06-17 00:39
So David - it wouldn't be wise if he named his next model the "Toots Good."
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2015-06-17 00:59
For comparison, Tony Ventura plays a YouTube performance of Rabaud's Solo de Concours on the German bore S & S 3000 model clarinet (grenadilla) and Mingzhe Wang plays a YouTube performace of the Copland Concerto on the French bore S & S model 1000 clarinet (also grenadilla).
If you can forget about how much they cost, both Schwenke and Seggelke Boehm clarinets are superb instruments. Just possibly, the 1000 model might give players both the ring of the best Buffets and the cover of the best German bore instruments. Or is my imagination carrying me away?
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2015-06-17 01:01
seabreeze: they were playing S&S grenadilla 1000+
David- I also tried the Leblanc/Backun models and got the same weird impression.
Regarding Swiss teachers insisting on B40, that would really depend on which teacher you go to. Several other brands are also popular here.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2015-06-17 01:09
Are the Italian Licostini mouthpieces popular in Switzerland ? They are virtually unobtainable in the US.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2015-06-17 23:22
Francois Benda plays them and sells them to all his students in Basel. Licostini is difficult to deal with if you don't speak Italian.
I think Paulo Beltramini (who is principal in Lugano and teaches in Luzern) also plays/played Licostini. He sounds great whatever he plays on.
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Author: Clarinetian
Date: 2015-06-20 10:11
I think those kind of schools are coming back. Many player that before used Buffet clarinet but prefered a warmer sound are switching to other brands. While other are changing the model within Buffet, many players are prefering the Tosca or the RC prestige and been pairing them with after market barrels like Backun or the Zoom Barrel. Those clarinetist that prefer a ringing tone are those that are still playing R13 or R13 Prestiges. That is what I have seen I around these days.
In my opinion, teachers can make sugestions about equipment choice but they should let their students select the equipment. In my case all my teachers are Buffet players, all with different options of aftermarket barrels. I have played many Buffet clarinets with different options of barrels and bells that were great but it was a little hard to get the sound I like. For me the instruments that get me the sound I desire with no effort at all are my Selmer Recitals.
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2015-06-20 19:52
I think the BBoard itself has changed the culture surrounding schools of playing. 25 years ago, students were limited to what their particular teachers said regarding clarinet history. Now, thanks to forums like this and resources as common as YouTube, a lot of the rigidity has been undermined in a very healthy way.
There's been a tremendous amount of dross and trouble for musicians as a result of the internet, but this liberating aspect of it is priceless.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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