 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lbh
Date: 2001-04-29 04:23
what do you mean by 3rd ring ? i'm lost ! help
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-04-29 10:45
Mark,
You are correct. It does have the third ring but not the extra trill key. You are also correct about the metal chimney. I bougt a BT off of eBay awhile back and it came with a metal insert for a chimney. I contacted the seller who had no idea. He just stated that it was his father's who played it in community bands. I went ahead and overhauled it. It turned out very well. The metal chimney had no affect on intonation or timber as far as I can tell. I'm using it as my main clarinet now.
John
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-04-29 11:28
Lbh wrote:
>
> what do you mean by 3rd ring ? i'm lost ! help
On the upper joint, a normal Boehm clarinet only has rings around the 1st and 2nd fingerholes on the front of the instrument (plus the thumb hole of course but we're not counting that here). The 3rd finger hole does not have a ring around but is just a hole bored in the instrument. On the instrument that is referred to here on eBay, there is a ring around that third fingerhole. Usually that is what is referred to as the "forked Eb/Bb" option. It permits you to trill from clarion Ab to Bb (or chalumeau Db to Eb) by playing the Ab normally and trilling to Bb by moving only the middle finger of the left hand. It is useful in any circumstance where you need to move quickly and cleanly between these two notes and need a good clear sound on the Bb. On a standard Boehm clarinet, you trill the Ab to Bb by moving the 1st finger of the left hand. The Bb is very poor sounding but adequate for a trill if properly supported. However in circumstances where you need a nice clear Bb, you could not use this Bb fingering.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-04-29 14:33
I'll just add to John"s and Dee's posts to say that the left "ring" finger ring is the 2nd [or 1st] keying addition to the "standard" 17/6 clarinet, toward the "full Boehm" which has 20 keys and 7 rings, which for me, has more advantages than disadvantages. Don
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-04-29 15:39
OK, everybody THANKS. So tell me now ... since the clarinet in question is sans the trill key ... what purpose does the additional ring serve? perhaps it assists in the operation of the bridge key --- or how exactly does it perform? (certainly, its not added simply for looks or feel, right?) Thanks again. mw
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-04-29 20:04
mw wrote:
>
> OK, everybody THANKS. So tell me now ... since the
> clarinet in question is sans the trill key ... what purpose
> does the additional ring serve? perhaps it assists in the
> operation of the bridge key --- or how exactly does it perform?
> (certainly, its not added simply for looks or feel, right?)
> Thanks again. mw
Reread my post on the third ring and review the part about trilling from clarion Ab to Bb. You can now trill with the middle finger. The third ring is connected to the rod in such a way that it holds the pad that is above the second fingerhole shut so that you can do this trill. Without this third ring, the pad opens when you remove your finger from the 2nd fingerhole and you won't have a Bb.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-04-29 20:26
MW, in response to your second question, I looked more carefully at the cl, and believe it is a "standard" cl of maybe 1900 vintage, except for the added 3rd ring and 2nd chimney making it a 17/7. It looks to me as prob. Buffet's attempt to tune-in the fork Eb/Bb, which was well accomplished later [on my P-M and Selmer FB's] employing a small hole and pad under the sliver key [UJ]. Is this what you [John and Dee] refer to a trill key, or is there something I,ve missed?? I dont see any evidence of art. C#/G#, alt. Ab/Eb or low Eb [to make a full Boehm. Don
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-04-30 03:08
No, Don ... I think you have it.
I have read what John & Dee posted above and understand what they are saying. I do a lot better when i can depress/feel/move the keywork & SEE how it is operating and effecting other moving parts. Anyways it makes sense.
OK, so to complicate things a little and taking Don's comment & thought :
What does/did the addition/creation of the small key & tone hole _added_ under the Sliver key on the U/J accomplish/do?
Is this _only_ an addition to improve the tuning of the Bb? I have studied this mechanism on my Selmer BT & readily determine that the small key over the (small-extra) tone hole (below the sliver key on the U/J) is activated by depressing the 2nd (middle) ring.
Thanks,
mw
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-04-30 18:33
The mechanism gives you an alternate "fork" Eb/Bb, using the fingering for E/B plus the left ring finger. The extra ring around the bottom finger hole on the upper joint is connected to the pad between the left index and middle fingers. You use this fingering for the interval C to Eb (chalumeau) and G to Bb (clarion), where the usual fork fingering (with the two index fingers) can't be used. It also provides a decent trill from Db to Eb (chalumeau) and Ab to Bb (clarion).
I suppose everyone has tried to get an Eb/Bb by pushing down on just the pad (leaving the finger hole for the left middle finger open). This is of course quite sharp. Adding your left ring finger makes the notes quite flat.
The design used on modern instruments adds a tiny hole covered by a pad connected to the left middle finger ring. This gives additional venting that brings the Eb/Bb in tune with the ring finger down.
Early in the 20th century, Buffet used a different method, enlarging the hole for the left middle finger instead of using an extra hole. This hole was too large to cover with a fingertip and so had a pierced flute-style key called a "doughnut" key after its shape. That's what you see on the eBay instrument.
I've played several doughnut key Buffets over the years and owned an A clarinet for a while. I found that the mechanism tuned pretty well, but I thought it was mechanically heavier and maybe less reliable than the modern version, which is probably why Buffet stopped making it.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-04-30 20:17
As usual, Many TKS, Ken, for your "elucidation" [hope that means what I mean] of the "doughnut" [nearly bought one!] and the fork structures [have several] , you explain things far better than I. Agree on all. Regards, Don
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