 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Phil Smallwood
Date: 2001-08-15 22:35
Are you able to play an A=442 pitched clarinet at A=440 without throwing off the scale of the clarinet? I know flutes pitched at A=442 can be comfortably played at A=440 and A=442. It seems that the pitch standard here in the USA is rising among orchestras but the community band I'm in plays at A=440. Thanks for any help.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-08-15 22:59
Hi,
I bought my clarinet when I was still living in France and it is pitched at A=444Hz!!
It was a big investment, as I aquired a RC prestige Greenline. I then moved to North America where everybody was playing at 440Hz.
I bought a longer barrel pull slightly the middle section and my instrument is pretty much in tune. Another trick is to put some duck tape at the top of the holes which makes some notes sharp. I have to admit that I still have to work my embouchure to play 3rd register B,C in tune but not too much.
So I'm pretty sure that going from a 442 to a 440 is probably not a big deal at all. If you have already an instrument and are thinking of changing just because you wan to play at 440, don't bother.
-Sylvain
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Author: William
Date: 2001-08-15 23:05
It should be alright, just use a longer barrel or pull your present barrel a bit more. I find it interesting that the pitch seems to be rising--I'm told that the Chicago Symphony Orchestra plays at 442. What concerns me is: what do they do when using tuned percussion instruments such a xylophone, chimes or plain old orchestra bells? Most of these instruments that I know are pretuned to A=440. To avoid all sorts of intonation problems, do orchestras like the CSO have special A=442 editions? Just wondering.........
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2001-08-16 00:42
I read somewhere professinal wind players' contracts have an article about the range they should play A1 such as 442 Hz plus minus 1 Hz. This seems reasonable and it is also reasonable for players to have instruments designed as such. Higher pitched instruments are basically designed slightly shorter than lower pitched ones. Obviously, it is necessary to 'cut' longer one to adjust its basic tuning to higher pitch although reverse way may be possible.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-08-16 04:42
You can always tune lower than A-442. At A-440, right on, you're stuck with that.
If the piano, for instance, is tuned a bit sharper than A-440... you're dead.
I don't know this, but I could assume that wind instruments are purposely manufactured a wee bit to the sharp end. I think some pro instruments come from the factory with two barrels. In fact, I know some do - or, at least, did.
- ron b -
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-08-16 11:37
ron b wrote:
>
> You can always tune lower than A-442. At A-440, right on,
> you're stuck with that.
> If the piano, for instance, is tuned a bit sharper than
> A-440... you're dead.
> I don't know this, but I could assume that wind instruments are
> purposely manufactured a wee bit to the sharp end. I think some
> pro instruments come from the factory with two barrels. In
> fact, I know some do - or, at least, did.
> - ron b -
I've read that clarinets are designed so that in a room at about 72°F, the barrel should be pulled 1mm to 2mm to be in tune. This gives you some leeway to tune in cold rooms or to groups or instruments that play slight flat such as a piano that may be tuned slightly lower.
So if you have the barrel pushed all the way in for that 72°F room, it will play slightly sharp. In warmer rooms, it will play even sharper.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-16 14:25
Philip,
Get in touch with Greg Smith about a Chadash barrel for your R-13 to meet your pitch needs. It'll fix the problem--pronto!
If you want to just experiment with pitch and tuning barrels, a Click barrel would do for that--it doesn't sound as good as a Moennig or Chadash--but it is easy to click up or down for sharp or flat problems. And, with changing weather (as mentioned above) you'll need to be making adjustments constantly on your instrument's tuning barrel.
Smiles!
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-08-16 14:32
It's a good point about the higher tuning and its effect on playing with fixed-pitch instruments. I have an old Chicago Symphony recording of "Also Sprach Zarathustra" in which the organ is clearly almost a quarter-tone flatter than the orchestra -- very disconcerting!
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-08-16 14:49
The organ in Also Sprach is *always* flat. Even Adolph Herseth and the Chicago brass section couldn't help going sharp on the huge crescendos.
Sorry about that, Greg.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Jason M.
Date: 2001-08-17 05:05
I play in a highschool marching band and about half of our marimba's (like a xylophone) are tuned to A=442, and the other half are at A=440. The rest of the band generally tunes to A=440. With a marching band, it's not quite so vital, I would imagine... With everyone out in the cold, the tuning is bound to be a little bit shady anyways.
~Jason
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-17 16:13
Philip, your new R-13 is pitched at 440--isn't it? Or, are you perhaps speaking of another instrument?
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Author: Steve Sacks
Date: 2001-08-18 02:40
Dear Brenda:
Thanks for the info but who is Greg Smith? (sorry, I'm not a full-fledged "clarinet maven".) I have the opposite problem; I bought a new R-13 with a 66 mm barrel which I presume is 440 Hz, but I live in Japan where all the pianos are either 441 or 442. So I need some advice on a new barrel. (I have a Click barrel but the sound isn't that great.) Would you recommend a Buffet 64 or 65 mm barrel, or one of these other brands you mention? I'd be grateful for whatever input you could provide, as well as Greg Smith's contact. Thanks!
Steve
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-18 22:28
Steve,
Greg Smith is a Sneezy sponsor. Click onto the "sponsors" link above and his box will be on the page right away. It's actually Gregory Smith Mouthpieces.
I would recommend a 65 for sure and perhaps a 64, depending upon how flat you tend to be with your 66. And, the Buffet Chadash or Moennig barrels are really nice with the R-13. Yes, the Click doesn't sound so great--but, for rehearsal purposes to learn to listen for "pitch" it helps to know the general mm length you usually need before spending the money for the wood barrel.
There are lots of barrel alternatives out there--look on the Sneezy board for some of the sponsors.
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Author: Anna
Date: 2001-08-20 10:50
I seem to remember being told by someone or reading somewhere that my R-13 was tuned to A=442 when fully pushed in at 72 degrees F. But I'm not sure. Our orchestra always tunes to 440 now, and I do seem to find that once I'm properly warmed up I have to pull out a mm or two to play in tune.
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Author: harim0suprem0
Date: 2015-05-23 09:11
Does anyone know if you can play a A=440 clarinet at A=442 with a shorter barrel?!?!?!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-05-23 11:55
You will be able to play up to 442Hz using a shorter barrel, but it won't be uniform over the entire range of the instrument as using a shorter barrel will have more of a sharpening effect on notes nearer the mouthpiece end and you'll have to use tuning fingerings for any notes that are still flat lower down the instrument.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-05-23 19:30
Lipping down is easier than lipping up so it should be easier to play a 440 Hz clarinet in 442 Hz with a shorter barrel.
The other way requires the throat tones to be sharp at 442 Hz to allow for a longer barrel or a bigger volume barrel or mouthpiece.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2015-05-23 22:03
The differrence between 440 and 442 is about 8 cents. I'm sure every clarinet has at least one "sour" note that is more than 8 cents off, so just pull the barrel a bit (or get a shorter one if you're consistently too flat).
And use your ears, none of the orchestra players have a uniform tuning during the whole performance...
--
Ben
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-05-23 22:15
I agree with Ben. And of course if the barrel is adjusted to tune the middle of the instrument then the deviation of the shorter notes at top and longer ones lower down is only about 4 cents from the "new" centre pitch.
This is far smaller than the typical variations between players caused by oral cavity, embouchure and other equipment variations.
When playing with strings who tend to adopt a less tempered scale to suit the music you just have to be prepared to adjust intonation by far more than 4 cents.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-05-24 03:46
Attachment: 442HzNoPull.jpg (40k)
Attachment: 440Hz1mmPull.jpg (45k)
Moving the long tones 8 cents will move the short tones much more. I attached an example where the barrel was pulled 1 mm and intonation breaks down. The E4/F4/F#4/G4 would have to be fingered when exposed. Ab4/A4/Bb4 would sound terrible when they are connected with B5/C5 in a melody.
Post Edited (2015-05-24 03:52)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-05-24 09:12
>> The differrence between 440 and 442 is about 8 cents. I'm sure every clarinet has at least one "sour" note that is more than 8 cents off, so just pull the barrel a bit (or get a shorter one if you're consistently too flat). <<
Not only that, but other reasons (like weather, time you don't have to warm up an instrument, etc.) can affect the tuning much more than that, so almost everyone would often have to adjust to larger differences than 440 vs 442, in ways that would also not change all notes on the clarinet exactly the same.
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