 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Pat Parkin
Date: 2001-04-30 04:54
There was a thread about a year ago and then again in December about full Boehm clarinets wherein a few people mentioned extra weight. Since I now have a Miraphone (stencil?) full Boehm, I decided to compare it to a few other horns:
Dolnet, Lefevre & Pigis 23.5 oz.
M. Masson / /Thibouville Freres #MC109 24.0 oz.
Buffet Evette #D46950 25.5 oz.
Buffet Evette #D12762 25.5 oz.
Buffet C12 #246621 25.5 oz.
Buffet C12 #365450 26.5 oz.
Buffet C12 #300589 27.0 oz.
Buffet R13 #197028 25.5 oz.
Miraphone Full Boehm #1703 26.0 oz.
As can be seen, it's on the high side, but certainly not the heaviest. This particular instrument play pretty well in tune. The throat F and C above the staff are the worst, being a bit sharp. The full-tube Bb is very sensitive to the opening and condition of the register key. When I take it off completely, the Bb is clear and in-tune, especially with the bell rotated to the optimum angle. I am going to try a tapered, cone-shaped cork pad and see what that does.
If anyone knows if this instrument was actually made by Miraphone or some other company, please let me know.
Best Regards,
Pat Parkin
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-04-30 06:09
The heavy clarinets I have experienced had an extra semitone at the bottom - to "Eb". That's what made them heavy. Does "full Boehm" technically include this?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mike Irish
Date: 2001-04-30 11:50
hmmm variation in the C-12 by an ounce an half between three of them....
could that be one is played mor then the other two? or just cause it has more meat to the stock..... which one seems to have the deeper richer tone?
that may be a way of seeing which horn you may want to choose from, weight nay have something to do with the sound... well actually the bulk of the horn, but to find it may have to weight it.....
something also.... how do the upper joints messure out from horn to horn.... as well as the lower joints ...barral,,,,,, m / p........ and bell.....
would be interesting to know... may have to take a scale with me when I go shopping for a clariinet...... " I will take the m/p piece of this one, the first joint from that one, the lower from the one in the show case, and the barral and bell from this one..... " heheheh think the shop keep would care for that... lol
but seriously, which of the C-12 plays deeper and richer.... being you have 3 of them there, that would be a comparison I would like to know about... the heavier one or the lighter one.....
thanks.... Mike
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Pat Parkin
Date: 2001-04-30 12:34
Mike,
I think the heaviest of the C12s definitely has the best tone and also blows the easiest and most evenly. I no longer have other two, and have no idea how much each one was played. I kept the best one, finally stepping up from the Buffet Evette that I've been playing the last 12 years. The Buffet C12 seem to be an underrated clarinet, but I think that it is very good.
The DLP, which is the lightest of the bunch, also has a very nice, rich sound, even with one roughed-up tonehole, which I don't have the equipment to fix yet.
Gordon,
The Mirophone does have the extra keywork to Eb/Bb.
Pat Parkin
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-04-30 12:46
Please don't jump to conclusions regarding weight & tone for at least 2 reasons:
1) It's one data point
2) We don't know what one person's "rich & deep" means without a recording. You'd be surprised perhaps at the different sounds that are attached to those words. They're by no means univerally applicable to one kind of sound.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-04-30 13:33
As usual, Mark says it well. For interest, I'll weigh [and report] my Penzel-Mueller [which may be your maker!, if US, or Bettoney, Pedler, Pruefer, Conn etc] , my Selmer Paris, both dating in the 1920's, and my 3/4 Pruefer F B [no low Eb!]. How old is yours? I should think that the density of the wood [isn't grenadilla quite a bit heavier than rosewood??] and the "weighty" character of your keys would account for the slight diffs in the weights you posted. I also dont think the differences account for tonality differences, tho, my local good friend-fine cl'ist sounds superb playing his Sel Recital [isn't it a "heavy" one??] . Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-04-30 15:13
As of now, I need to find a "butcher's scale" or fish scale to weigh, as my bathroom scale has too much "stiction" [static friction] to be of any help. What did you use?? Incidentally, did you weigh with mp [prob], lig?, cap?, reed?, anything else? The "basic" length of all 3 is virtually the same, the Pruefer [without low E] is about 1 1/2" shorter, and obliviously less in weight [I think}. Above I named the US makers that came to mind, I'm sure a list of French etc makers would be much longer. Interesting. Also I've never found patents [on sop. cls] which are devoted to the 4 additions to the "standard" Boehm. If anyone knows of any, please post it. TKS, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-04-30 20:08
I see that I'm posting [too?] frequently, BUT, I have an reasonable offer of a good-looking one above, [Radio Improved?? model]. If anyone has a "feeling" about any R I [quality-tonality] {J B?} please let me know here or via E-M. TKS, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Pat Parkin
Date: 2001-04-30 22:51
For Don & Mike
I used a postage scale, measuring the upper joint and barrel together and the lower joint and bell separately. No mouthpiece.
Here's the full data:
Dolnet, Lefevre & Pigis 23.5 oz./ UJ&B - 10.5oz.; L.J. - 10oz.; Bell - 3oz.
M. Masson / /Thibouville Freres #MC109 24.0 oz./ UJ&B - 10oz.; L.J. - 10oz.; Bell - 4oz.
Buffet Evette #D46950 25.5 oz./ UJ&B - 11oz.; L.J. - 10.5oz.; Bell - 4oz
Buffet Evette #D12762 25.5 oz./ UJ&B - 11oz.; L.J. - 10.5oz.; Bell - 4oz
Buffet C12 #246621 25.5 oz./ UJ&B - 11oz.; L.J. - 10.5oz.; Bell - 4oz.
Buffet C12 #365450 26.5 oz./ UJ&B - 11oz.; L.J. - 11.5oz.; Bell - 4oz.
Buffet C12 #300589 27.0 oz./ UJ&B - 11oz.; L.J. - 12oz.; Bell - 4oz.
Buffet R13 #197028 25.5 oz./ UJ&B - 11oz.; L.J. - 10.5oz.; Bell - 4oz
Miraphone Full Boehm #1703 26.0 oz./ UJ&B - 10oz.; LJ.- 12.5oz.; Bell - 3.5oz.
Mark, your right, the best way to describe the best of the 3 C12s is that the total experience of playing it, including tone, intonation, resistance, keywork and everything else, was, for me, significantly better than the other two.
Pat Parkin
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rob
Date: 2001-04-30 23:50
I have 3 FBs and a Selmer Recital. The Recital weighs far more than any of the FBs that I have. I have not weighed any of them on a scale but the differences in weight are significant and substantial enough that I do not need to. The Recital has IMHO a much richer and well-developed sound than any of the FBs I have (Selmer Series 10, Selmer 1930s model and Buffet from 1926) but I think that has more to do with the bore size and other engineering/design factors than the weight. Also the lightest-weight clarinet I own is an old 1 piece Buffet FB from 1926. In my experience when people talk about the extra weight on an FB they are usually talking about weight from the keywork, they are usually trying to discourage someone from buying an FB instrument and they have, more often than not, never played one themselves, at least not for any substantial length of time. In my dreams, what I'd really like to have is a pair of Selmer Recital FBs; something I'm sure I will never see though it is a nice fantasy. They would be the ultimate thumb-busters, but in my opinion worth every moment of pain and discomfort.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-05-01 03:03
Don,
I can't tell any difference in the "Radio Improved" and the early "Balanced Tone" models. I think they are essentially the same clarinet with different marketing strategy by Selmer at the time. I haven't measured tone hole by tone hole, etc to make sure, but I've worked them enough to know that there isn't a heck of a lot of difference in the structure and the tone quality.
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-01 18:22
J B - I have the R I, much like my early Sel-Paris F B EXCEPT for a metal sleeved barrel which tube extends down into an inch or so of the U J!! Will get it into playability and see What Selmer Hath Wrought ! Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-05-02 13:15
The heaviest clarinets I have experienced had been regularly treated (drenched?) with bore oil. For what it is worth an internationally known recorder maker told me that when recorders are drenched in oil they become very heavy and the tone is compromised.
Granadilla has a specific gravity of about 1.15 to 1.2.
SEveral timbers are called "rosewood" and have a S.G close to 1.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-02 18:28
HIGA [here I go again} Ser # L 1206, [1932], now a good player, crack in UJ, slight leak, will be repaired . Pat, it weighs 27.9 oz [wo mp], on postal scale, 1.75 # [28 oz] on grocery store scales. Will weigh others at P O. This cl has a metal lined and "tubed" barrel which may add that add'l weight! beyond other F B's. I'd choose weighing it all together to avoid "round-off" error accumulation by piece-meal weighing, to get best precision. So far, my impression is that it is a "bright" toned cl!!. Will add, hopefully before this thread retreats to the archives. Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jim
Date: 2001-05-03 04:44
40 years later, and I never gave a thought to what the thing weighed at all. Amazing how heavy less than 2 pounds can feel after its been supported on your thumb for several hours.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-05-03 18:17
Pat - To complete the weights of my full or nearly full Boehm cls, as before on a postal scale, the entire horn but no mp, my 1920's Penzel-Mueller and older Selmer F B's were respectively, 24.6 and 26.8 oz. My Pruefer, single-bodied [3/4 F B, no low Eb and therefore about 1" shorter] weighed 24.2 oz. As of now I dont really draw many conclusions as to their relative sounds. The reddish coloration of this Selmer leads me to wonder if it is a resewood?? More research needed?? Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
