 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2015-05-20 05:34
How long do you find that your reeds decay in playing qualities and response in a practice session? I'm fining that the first 5 minutes my reed is adjusting. Between 5-25 minutes the reed seems to be at it's best. 25-35 minutes seems to be the point at which it starts to decay. At around 40 is when the reed seems to have lost a lot of its girth and begins to have trouble in response and it just progressively gets worse. Do any of you experience this as well?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-05-20 06:17
No two reeds are alike. Look at the tip. If it's soaked through (i.e., darker yellow), switch to another.
Ken Shaw
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-05-20 06:46
I have mostly the same experience, though my reeds vary in endurance per session. Generally they are good as new after a rest of 2 to 7 days (pretty sure that also varies per reed). And they get better after broken in a full 10 sessions, I think. Too many variables!
Anyway, I would like to be able to play a solid 45-60 minutes on one good well broken in well rested reed. Mostly I cannot, they fade after 3 to 5 songs, 15-25 minutes. One day I had one reed hold up to the end, I almost fainted and didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
How many of you have to change reeds during a live performance? After how much play? Is this like trying to switch clarinets mid stream? Do you have to suffer until the next good stopping point? Horror stories please.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Exiawolf
Date: 2015-05-20 09:30
Id as well like to hear what professional performers do during 2 hour performances. (Especially if most everyone seems to suffer around the same reed decay)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-05-20 10:35
Usually I play through two hour rehearsals without changing reeds, #3 V12. I may get weary, but the reeds hold up. With some daily practice and once a week rehearsals, they often last for several weeks. When the reed can't play the top C, I begin to think about looking for another, but I always have a good spare or two or three on hand.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-05-20 13:41
Gosh, I was going to say that a reed should NOT vary at all during a session no matter the length.
I do not have experience with decay at all over the short term once a reed is properly broken-in. At the two month mark (give or take) reeds start to sound more brittle or less focused signaling that they really need to retire. Now that's two months of seeing one particular reed once every six to eight days depending on how many dependable reeds I have going per box of 10.
But I can very easily practice for two hours straight have a fifteen minute break and go through a full rehearsal with 'the reed of the day.'
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-05-20 19:02
If everyone played the same way, took the same approach to embouchure and the amount of reed in their mouths, if everyone treated reeds between sessions the same way, used the same break-in process, used the same reeds made of the same cane and played in the same kind of ensembles under the same atmospheric conditions, there might be a single answer to this question.
I'm not sure what your reed is actually doing when you say "it starts to decay." I assume the quality of sound and response are diminishing. I'm not sure, either, what losing "a lot of its girth" means, and whether the loss of quality is just a continuation of the earlier "decay" or something different.
The two main causes for loss of response in a reed after a period of use are waterlogging and bending (resulting in some degree of closure of the tip opening).
Waterlogged reeds are usually new ones that haven't been broken in.
Reeds can bend toward the tip rail of the mouthpiece because of pressure from the embouchure. If you use a lot of upward jaw pressure (the usual definition of biting) you can cause the reed to bend inward. I think this tends to happen more, too, if you take a relatively short length of reed in your mouth, because you will be applying whatever pressure you use over an area that's farther away from the mouthpiece rails, leaving the reed more room to bend. If your contact area is closer to the separation point, the pressure will be against a thicker area of wood and the distance you can deflect the reed by pressure alone is less. That's only my intuitive guess, but it seems like a reasonable explanation for the problem of "closing the reed" that I think you're noticing.
FWIW, I often change reeds at the intermission of either a concert or a rehearsal, as much proactively as anything else - especially if the repertoire I'm playing is very loud and heavy. But I do sometimes play entire concerts on one reed if I especially like it and don't have a reason to change it out.
Karl
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-05-20 19:35
Karl and others who can usually play a reed a long time,
To what extent do you think your reeds change in response from, let's say, 5 or 10 minutes into a playing session (fully wetted?) to after an hour of vigorous play? Would you not feel a difference if you were to switch to another ("equal") fresh-for-the-day reed? No difference? Or you are just able to play equally well on it even though it changed? This is an important distinction.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-05-20 19:57
fskelley wrote:
> Would you not feel
> a difference if you were to switch to another ("equal")
> fresh-for-the-day reed? No difference? Or you are just able to
> play equally well on it even though it changed? This is an
> important distinction.
>
My answer would have two parts:
Unless something has happened to the reed - I have occasionally had reeds warp as I played them, for example - in most cases I can play equally well on the reed throughout a session. Sometimes a reed does seem like it's beginning to close after an hour or so - usually heavier ones that I've had to play with more pressure. Those reeds are usually ones that haven't completely settled anyway - I'm still making slight adjustments to them during practice sessions.
If I do change, there is no such thing as another *equal* reed. There will be a change from one reed to the other, which is one reason why, especially for a performance, I'm more inclined to stay with what I have unless the repertoire needs something different.
Karl
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2015-05-20 21:10
To me the problem is fixed via a Legere. I haven't been at it a long time, but many local professionals use them, and my years of foray into oboe reed making made me look for an instrument where I could choose not to deal with that situation. Not trying to start a fight....but really, why would someone put all that $$, stress, and effort into something that can be so easily overcome with no detectible difference in output from the audience point of view?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-05-20 21:38
I and others have found Legeres to also fade during a play session, or not play as well after a very few days of use. Wish it were not so. Made me go back to cane and learn all I could about optimizing them for me, now it's been I think a couple of years.
I'm much further along now in many ways. And now I'm ready to retry synthetics, since my cane experiences are still unsatisfying. I was going to buy one Forestone as an experiment, and asked on another thread here which type and strength would be best for such a one-shot trial (all I can afford unless it was the Holy Grail)... got no answer, probably the right folks didn't see it. Meanwhile I encountered a super deal on 3 Legere Signatures in my strength range, those should arrive today. So we will see. Even if early play is wonderful (that's what I expect) I will not really know where I stand until after 5 or 10 or 20 days of play on them.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2015-05-20 21:38)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-05-20 21:58
I soak a reed in a small pill bottle for a few minutes. That can be up to 20 minutes (when I go off to do something else after putting the reed in water and just plain forget it) and the reed will perform great until I am done with it. If I wet another reed for a few minutes (of similar quality, like number 2 if the other is number 1), that one will perform equally as well. There is no diminishing of playability in the short term.
I cannot say that of Legere. They do soften up after about 20 minutes or so of playing. That is why I settled on a strength and cut that starts out a little more aggressive than I like so that it "settles" to a proper playing mode in short order. My issue with Legere is that they have a VERY narrow window where you can maximize the response, and timbre. This by definition limits your pitch adjustment down to almost zero. That is my biggest objection to plastic reeds. They'll get you out of a jam if all your cane reeds have gone to hell in a hand basket, but as long as you work cane properly, that should rarely if ever happen.
I did want to address changes in weather (humidity and barometric pressure). There WILL be times, no matter how well we prepare, where your best reeds will just decide to take the day off. I have been in situations where I have gone through 5 reeds in ten minutes before I finally got back on track. There are just times (usually at changes of season) where the weather will throw you a curve. But you should have enough options in your current batch of reeds to cover times when things are less resistant than you like, more resistant than you like, or just plain weird.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2015-05-20 22:26
What I like about brass instruments is that it is basically up to your chops to make the right sound at the right time....and you are not subjected to the foibles of plant material. Were it not for embouchure dystonia, I would not be making the foray into woodwinds. If I liked the sound of the flute better, I would probably have taken that route.
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Author: Wisco99
Date: 2015-05-21 04:00
I play Murphy reeds, and they never degrade when practicing. Instead they wait until a performance for the exact moment when they will inflict the most damage on my playing and mental health. They usually go at just the measure before a solo passage or exposed part of the music. I just consider it a feature I pay extra for.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-05-21 13:15
Exiawolf,
"Id as well like to hear what professional performers do during 2 hour performances."
There is a video on Youtube with Jessica Phillips on reed preparation. She says she switches reeds between acts.
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2015-05-22 00:09
I don't find that my reeds degrade within a session. But I do find my clarinet has increased condensation in the bore as well as occasionally moisture build up on the rails of the reed. I fix it by pulling through regularly, and taking the reed off.
As far as a 2 hour concert goes, you are rarely playing as much as in a practice session, unless its a solo recital (at which point, 2 hours might be quite tiring!)
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Author: Wisco99
Date: 2015-05-22 12:30
At this point in life, age 67, I think I am degrading faster than my reeds are.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2015-05-23 19:57
FYI, I think there was a discussion about 'reed collapse' about 2 months ago.
Over the last several years, I found for me that a longer soak (than apparently what others recommend) helps the reed be consistent over the period of play, which for me is 2-1/2 hrs for rehearsal or 2 - 4 hrs for practice, where more than half the time, I can play 1 reed. Sometimes I need to switch to another and in rare situations, to a third reed.
I've found brands have a difference in stamina, but that varies within the brand as well. My current favorites are Xilema, and Gonzalez GD (if I want C7). I number and date my reeds and have a post-it in the case with my comments for each as to how long they play, highest reliable note, resistance, etc. and pick accordingly, avoiding playing the same reed 2 days in a row. Reed life seems to be 6 mo. - 2 yrs w/ rotation among 12. Sometimes I'm late for rehearsal so I pick a 'quick play' reed that I know plays well for 1/2 hour then collapses, knowing that another reed will be better by then. Keeping some that are outside normal parameters (e.g. strength, stye) is useful if you travel or if there are variations in playing temp, humidity, etc. and your 'regulars' don't play (I keep VD white masters handy).
When I play Bass Cl, there are additional considerations. If it is a long rehearsal, I pick a softer reed and save my chops. Given the greater variety of color possible with the BCl, I pick a reed for that first even though I know it (or I) will not last long and need a change. However, more likely than not I will change the BCl reed at least once. For me, often end of life is when the tips begin to shred.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-05-31 03:29
A couple of weeks ago I thought about my routine of putting away all my reeds immediately at the end of each day's play session, while others here report deliberately drying them first. (In my case, if I had played multiple reeds that day, at least some of them would have dried for a short while. But not for very long.) And I had been putting them in my 70% humidity storage.
Seems to me that would explain my reeds remaining mushy for many days after a playing- maybe it was taking them a week to dry out enough. So I deleted the Humidipak from my storage (for now anyway), which dropped it from 70% to 40%, and started making sure reeds were dry before putting them away. And it seems to have helped. As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us". My experience has been so different from what others report, it had to be something- and maybe that was it or part of it. We will see.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-05-31 05:17
Just commented on the other thread. I wish I had said something about this earlier. It seemed obvious to me to let the reed get dry in appearance and touch before going into the "hydro-case" (or whatever we use) simply to prevent the reed from getting "water-logged" (the reason we break in reeds in the first place).
It's just something that seemed the right thing to do from early on (maybe some bad experiences with reeds treated incorrectly that I've expunged from my memory). But absolutely let the reeds get to a "neutral" state before packing them away - they still hydrated though !!!
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-06-02 20:39
The Classic Legere soften significantly and lose center, snap and resistance. I sometimes swap them out at break. Much depend on ambient temperature, as well. A few degrees cause a fair change in apparent strength, IMO.
The Signature is not as bad, but fussy finding a MP that works ... try the Reserve XO or X5 or the Fobes Debut with this reed. Not found a VD MP that likes the Signature very much ... but not tried everything, yet.
A well seasoned, well broken in cane reed seems to change very little ... actually less than the Legere. (!!)
I still prefer the Legere for the SOUND.
Tom
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-08-23 23:08
On another thread I detail how I left my Rovner dark ligatures for Rovner Versa X, with a noname BG clone as a backup. And now it seems all my reeds are capable of a full hour of play without significant degradation. I do not fully understand all this, but I am not complaining.
I DO still feel a change- a softening, if you will- after a few songs, more pronounced for some reeds than others. But I am still able to play well after the shift. And that's what's different. I don't even know if I consistently prefer the "before shift" or "after shift" condition, that may also vary per reed.
It has taken me years of practice sessions to figure some of these things out. Maybe I'm slow. But I'm still moving.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2015-08-23 23:09)
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2015-08-24 00:52
I've never needed to switch reeds any sooner than at intermission or between acts unless during my warmup I decide the reed isn't playing like it did before under the conditions I am in now. I definitely try to avoid reed fussiness during performances since I think it is a distraction from the job at hand, making music.
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