 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 42cheese
Date: 2015-04-18 09:35
Does anyone know anything about the "donut" forked Eb/Bb mechanism? It yields literally nothing in a search, and I can't find mention of it anywhere.
This beauty is MIIINE . . . maybe someday when the $ are favorable . . . Unless you strongly advise against it:
http://www.clarinetsdirect.biz/BuffetABasset-Crouch.html
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-04-18 16:56
You already know what it does. What other information are you looking for?
I had an old Buffet (old even in the '60s when I bought it) with that mechanism on it. It was a problem to repair when the pad leaked. There are very few places where it really adds anything to the clarinet's ease of use.
I don't know that any manufacturer includes this in the design of a modern clarinet.
Karl
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Author: 42cheese
Date: 2015-04-18 19:19
Karl:
-Did it sound good? Volume? Tone? Intonation? Compared to the standard Eb/Bb fingering? Compared to other forked Eb/Bb designs?
-Did it feel okay?
-Did it seem to affect the tone or intonation of other notes? Negatively? Positively?
-The forked Eb/Bb I have on my 50s Selmer CT is also annoying to repair, so I'm not put off by that difficulty—unless it was REALLY annoying to repair?
Anyone else have experience with/heard anything about/know anything about Buffet's "donut?"
And are 1920s Buffets, like the one above (Fox-customized!), any good? I'd think the wood would be far superior to anything made today, but I don't know much about Buffet's history.
---Sean
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-04-18 21:49
I have a Buffet Bb/A pair from 1908. Here are things to look for:
1. Clarinets Direct has interesting stuff, but the owner tends to exaggerate. I would never buy from him without a written agreement that I can return the instrument for any reason, or for no reason.
2. Buffets that old have a large bore that may require a somewhat different mouthpiece. The intonation is less stable than on modern Buffets, and you must learn to play it them tune.
3. Old Buffets require longer barrels than current ones -- perhaps 69 mm., with a different taper. Barrels that come with them are almost never original.
4. Bells that old are almost always cracked.
5. Old Buffets don't have the "ring" in the tone that you need for orchestral and solo playing.
6. To fix intonation problems, the upper joint is often reamed from the top down to the register vent. The surface will look dull. This spoils the instrument, and you should reject any instrument with a reamed bore.
7. Buffet abandoned the doughnut key for good reasons. It doesn't work as well as the modern mechanism with the tiny extra pad. Also, as Sean says, it's *really* hard to adjust.
8. I tried Steve Fox's belly pad support and couldn't get comfortable with it. Your results may vary.
9. It's *heavy.* You'll need a floor peg and a neck strap. It's not a substitute for a standard A clarinet and is useful *only* for the Mozart Concerto and a few modern pieces written for Alan Hacker.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but you'll do much better with a modern basset A, or, better yet, a reproduction of Stadler's original.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-04-18 22:15
42cheese wrote:
> Karl:
>
> -Did it sound good? Volume? Tone? Intonation? Compared to the
> standard Eb/Bb fingering? Compared to other forked Eb/Bb
> designs?
>
> -Did it feel okay?
>
> -Did it seem to affect the tone or intonation of other notes?
> Negatively? Positively?
To tell you the truth, I was too young and inexperienced to know how to answer these. The clarinet was stuffy and at least two repairmen told me they thought the donut was leaking enough to be a major contributor. My suspicion 50 years later is that if I had known then what I know now, I could have either gotten it to stop leaking myself or been more interactive with the repair people who said it couldn't be made to seal well. Finding an appropriate pad (I don't think standard open-hole flute pads fit correctly). as I remember, was a major hurdle. Today a good repair tech would make a pad by hand.
BTW, that clarinet also had a wrap around register key, just maybe to date its manufacture a little more closely.
That said, I'm not sure there are enough uses for that fingering to make any added problems a good trade-off. YMMV.
Karl
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-04-18 23:50
I've had three donut key clarinets, two Buffet As and one Japanese, pre Yamaha Eb. Once adjusted, the donut key is not a factor in how the instrument plays. That fingering is really not required. The very old 1910 Buffets can play very well, perhaps not as bright as a recent Prestige Buffet. They sometimes needed a little tuning work by an expert clarinet tuner but they were often very fine. Good luck!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-04-19 04:29
I can't honestly see what benefit the doughnut key offers that a regular forked Eb/Bb mechanism (as fitted to Selmer CTs, etc.) offers.
Can't say I've ever had any problems with them being both difficult to adjust or keep in adjustment on all the clarinets I have fitted with this mechanism.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: 42cheese
Date: 2015-04-19 09:00
Thanks for the responses! I greatly appreciate having my parade rained on—sometimes the parade isn't headed in the right direction.
I'm aware Clarinets Direct is not the most honest business around when it comes to the details, though their return policy is actually much better than most (I know now, having used it for two not-as-good-as-advertised clarinets).
So, basically, old Buffets tend not to have as nice a sound as newer ones, and the barrels probably aren't original and might not even be the right size. Good to know! And for that price, I would be very upset if it had intonation problems. Still, though: doesn't Stephen Fox's having worked on it count for anything in that regard?
It sounds like there is disagreement over how easy the donut is to adjust. But no one seems to care what it sounds like because no one uses it. Of course I would choose a modern forked design over an old one like the donut, but I was asking about the donut in the context of having no choice. What does it sound and feel like? Is it like Ken says, a lousy design the world is much better without? Or does it have some pros?
I'll have to differ on usage: I have never had any intention of strictly adhering to the classical repertoire—I play very little of it compared to jazz and various other styles. I use my forked Eb/Bb all the time, and I would use a basset clarinet as a clarinet, not just a historical specialty instrument.
But perhaps this particular basset is worth steering clear of. I might as well just try to save up for my own custom instrument.
Thanks,
Sean
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