 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Scaysie
Date: 2015-04-17 02:52
I have been burnt very badly in an international transaction that started on March 12 with a person in the far northeast of the UK who advertised a Leblanc BBb Paperclip Contra Bass Clarinet via a site based on a man's name (forgive me being cryptic).
My advice to all is 1. be extreamly cautious when dealing with (any) online buying / selling agency that does not have a user friendly complaints mechanism and 2. take extreame care with (international)personel bank transfers.
It is my experience that once the transfer takes place that one has to rely on that thing called goodwill. Disappointingly this seller has shown no goodwill at all and I am extreamly dissappointed. "Caveat Emptor"
As an off chance if anyone has any knowledge of this instrument (advertised serial number 2821) could you you please email me
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-04-17 04:15
There is a point in EVERY transaction where either the buyer or the seller is relying on TRUST until the goods or the payment is received. You feel it more if you are selling a car or house without a broker, or purchasing via mail.
Personally I would NEVER do a bank transfer to a private individual. These days EBay and PayPal are risky enough for my blood.
Just remember though, through the mail someone has to "give" first.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2015-04-17 04:26
Can you name this individual, and give an email address ?
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: Scaysie
Date: 2015-04-17 04:48
Thanks Alan porter,I can but since I am still trying to nail banks down in a quasi legal fashion as to their responsibilities ,I dont want to compromise this forum or board ,in any way.
If you flick me your address off line I am only too happy and gratefull to give you more info.
I have a feeling that I am going to accept things as they are
Thanks for your thoughts too Paul
Best
Pete
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-04-17 15:31
English banks, especially Barclays, hand out accounts to criminals and gladly assist fraud.
English authorities do nothing. Rochester is the new standard.
Just go to scamwarners.com and read the forums.
Continental European banks are more secure and cooperate less with criminals.
In any case, when sending money with bank wire you have to identify the person at the other end. Require some official address data and contact the seller by telephone using that data.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-05-04 16:19
Just becuase I said continental European banks were safer than British ones, here's a French bank that I found assisted scammers. If you google the bank's BIC "FPELFR21" and the word "scam" you'll find many stories.
The bastard below (fake name, of course) inserted spaces in the BIC (might be handled by the bank but not google) and asked not to disclose the account number.
Bonjour,
J’ai reçu votre adresse de réception .
Vous avez ci-dessous les informations nécessaires pour le virement bancaire :
Nom : Lucienne TOUCHON
Nom de banque: Compte Nickel
IBIC : F P E L F R 21
RIB : FR76 1659 8000 0101 0232 5000 149
Veuillez garder jalousement mes informations.
Je fais partir le colis tout en vous communiquant le numéro de suivi , dès réception du récépissé de votre virement. Merci de me tenir informer.
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Author: Michel48
Date: 2015-05-06 10:02
je viens d'être victime d'une escroquerie commise par la personne dénommée Lucienne Touchon lors de l'achat d'une prétendue clarinette basse Leblanc sur le site internet PasseTonAnnonce.com
Cette personne m'a demandé un règlement par virement bancaire (BIC CEPAFRPP131)
Le texte de sa réponse est analogue à celui que vous avez cité ("veuillez garder jalousement mes informations")
Le titulaire réel du compte n'est pas cette personne.
Faites attention. L'annonce est toujours en ligne
Post Edited (2015-05-06 10:05)
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-05-07 17:39
Michael48,
Very sorry to hear. The only way to fight this kind of activity is (1) to be extremely cautious and identify the seller in the real world, (2) report it a) to the police (even if they do nothing), b) to the bank and c) to the advertising site and (3) spread the message on the internet, especially used fake names and bank details (I assume google led you here). Even if banks hand out accounts to criminals without hesitation, it still costs the bastards some effort to get new accounts.
Post Edited (2015-05-07 17:44)
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Author: Michel48
Date: 2015-05-07 20:47
I have immediately reported the fact to the police and to the bank. I hope than the bank stop the account of the scammer.
I have also reported the fact to the web site.
I think that i cannot get my money back. Going to justice is the only possibility because the bank has not verified the identity of owner of account
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Author: Scaysie
Date: 2015-05-13 09:58
Thank you to everyone who has responded to this thread. You have renewed my faith in things clarinet. I must say that I was very upset indeed with this situation. Yes Johan the bank was Barclays.
I am concerned with xxxxxxlist ,the online market that the deal went through. I looked very hard and there appears to be nowhere where one can lodge a complaint. Their "legal section" is like a spectre. Like Michel48 I too, think im not going to get my money back
Any way I have learnt a veryexpensive lesson and thank you all again for your support. If you live anywhere near St Andrews let me know and I will recommend an address never to do business with.
Now...lets get on with the real joy of playing music
As Ever
Scaysie
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-05-18 14:08
Attachment: ad.jpg (526k)
Bonjour
Merci de la réponse; j'ai bien réceptionner votre adresse de livraison.
L'envoi se fera par la poste colissimo .
Vous avez ci-dessous mes informations pour le virement bancaire.
Nom: ALLAIN Sabrina
Nom de la banque :LA BANQUE POSTAL
IBAN: FR43 2004 1010 2103 15036 4E01 805
BIC: PSSTFRPPSDR
PS:Veuillez gardez jalousement mes informations ,je fais partis le colis tout en vous communiquant le numéro de suivit dès réception du récépissé de votre virement .
Je vous laisse comme garantit la copie de ma pièce d'identité.
Merci de me tenir informer.
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Author: Michel48
Date: 2015-05-19 11:05
J'ai recu ce type de réponse sur un site de vente.
Bien entendu, il doit s'agir d'une escroquerie car la personne n'a fourni aucune information
ni sur l'objet vendu, ni sur ses coordonnées. J'ai bien entendu rompu tout contact.
Lors de mon affaire précédente (Lucienne Touchon) j'ai pu faire annuler le virement et récupérer mon argent car la banque doit vérifier que le nom du bénéficiaire du virement est bien celui du titulaire du compte. Ce n'était pas le cas.
J'ai également déposé plainte auprès de la police dés les premiers jours.
J'ai signalé l'escroquerie sur le site et, malgré cela, l'annonce est toujours en ligne
ATTENTION !!!
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-05-19 12:57
Good to hear, Michel.
The only language banks understand is money. If they don't lose money on assisting fraud they will continue assisting criminals.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-09-05 18:06
Got another case with a UK bank involved. UK banks are world class when it comes to fraud assistance and money laundering.
A good idea is to ask the "seller" to take a photo of some specific area of the instrument. That's a hard to do for someone who doesn't have an instrument to sell. The "seller" might have pictures in reserve but probably not the ones you ask for.
Here's the end of the discussion:
From culprit to me
-------------------------------------------------
hi again
my details are:
Geoffrey Kerr
South Street, St. Andrews, Fife, KY16 9UN
IBAN: GB45NAIA07043605396580
SWIFT BIC: NAIAGB21
BANK NAME: Nationwide
so let me know when you are able to send me the money
from your bank account you transfer the money into mine,you can do it from your home if you have internet banking
let me know
thx
From me to culprit
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No problem. I have the funds available.
First, though, I want you to take the photo of the clarinet’s serial number I asked for and send me. There’s no hurry. You can take the photo when you have opportunity.
From culprit to me
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hi, the serial number is in the first picture
let me know
thx
From me to culprit
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Just take a picture of the logo and serial near the bell (it is almost visible in the attached image). Do it when it is convenient for you. No hurry.
Thanks
From culprit to me
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hi
it is already packed and ready to be send,i can`t take that picture,if this isn't a problem let me know,it is a problem then,i'm very sorry.anyway i can offer you fully refund if for any reason you aren`t 100% satisfied
From me to culprit
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Sorry but I want you to take the picture.
Thanks
-------------------------------------------------
(no more response)
Post Edited (2015-09-05 18:07)
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Author: knotty
Date: 2015-09-05 19:27
Just by the illiterate and clumsy way the seller handles writing, I would immediately suspect "bogus"
~ Musical Progress: None ~
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-09-05 20:56
It is almost fun to deal with someone you are 99% sure is trying to scam you, but you hang on just in case they are legit. Because you want the deal if it's real, and for the potential entertainment value.
I had a very scammy sounding inquiry about photos for a big family reunion. After a half dozen emails back and forth, I finally asked for some specific details to continue the discussion- and that was the end of that. A few weeks later I began to see more similar inquiries that were variants on the same scam. (They wanted to prepay on a credit card and have me pay "other vendors" out of it. Right.)
Requesting a specific photo is a great idea, would weed out a lot of bozos. But a resourceful shyster could still maybe do it. Maybe they have the clarinet, they just have no intention of sending it to you. Or they could find a close enough picture somewhere, or go take a photo of somebody else's horn. Very tough to be scam-proof and get anything done in life.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-09-06 03:06
Stan, I knew after the initial two messages (not listed above) that it was a scam. I continued just to make the bastard reveal his bank account so I could publish it. I believe bank accounts are traded in those markets and an asset that they don't want to lose. Now people can google the account number and find this discussion.
And yes, it is fun.
These guys are no geniuses. It would be a simple task for the police to catch them if they had any ambition and if there was less bureaucracy with tracking IP addresses at ISPs.
Post Edited (2015-09-06 03:06)
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Author: Scaysie
Date: 2015-09-09 06:47
Hi Johan et al,
It is with some embarrasment that I admit that I was taken by this scam. I thought that I was treading on thin "legal" ice somehow by telling everyone that my culprit ,as you put it was
Florin C Dumitrascu
137 South St ,St Andrews Fife KY169UN
IBAN: GB04LOYD30935432471468
BIC SWIFT:LOYDGB21326
Lloyds Bank
I was a virgin to the scamming world. Woe is me !! Thanks to this forum for at least giving me the chance to warn others
I guess the short story is for all clarinettists to steer well clear of anything to do with this St Andrews address. I will be dropping in to visit ,next time im in Scotland........thats for sure !
Celebrate Life
Pete
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-09-09 11:41
Probably the same guy with limited fantasy when it comes to addresses. He (or she) can sit anywhere in the world.
If Al Quaida would target British banks specifically, I would consider co-funding...
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-09-09 12:33
Unfortunately bad english is not a reliable way to identify scammers- reccently I was emailed about a clarinet I had for sale by someone with very poor english skills, making obvious and nonsensical gramatical errors. among other things....
"I am wondering, is it for sell still? If it is still for sell, I would be interested to have a look at it"
This, and other things in the email made me so suspicious that I almost just ignored the messages... but the next day contacted someone else in the city that person claimed to be from to see if I could verify it was a real person....
Turned out it was the student of a friend (University level), and english was that persons first language. They turned out to be very nice and honest, and the sale went through with no problems (I hope they are not offended if they somehow end up reading this).
I mention this not to mock that person, but to illustrate that while we must be careful to avoid scams, we must also be careful not to jump to conclusions!
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Author: AndyW
Date: 2015-09-15 19:09
Well, speaking as a Scot, I'd hate to think we're getting the bad reputation here.
I doubt very much if the St Andrew's address is anything to do with the scammers, although no doubt the bank accounts are real.
perhaps it's worth noting that very few people here in UK use 'Craigslist', we're more likely to use 'Gumtree', just as the French will probably use 'LeBonCoin'.
-Andy-
Glasgow
Sotland
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Author: Scaysie
Date: 2015-09-18 09:02
At the risk of boring everyone .......I notice that the instrument that I was scammed with is in G##gle again.
"Leblanc Contrabass Clarinet Model 340-Craigslist" Serial Number 28....
The map indicates the South St ,St Andrews address again and this time the price has gone up to GBP1600 . I have hit the indicated button to flag it as a scam but I dont know how effective this is.
As I have indicated I am not au fait with all this stuff... is there anything that can be done to stop this mongrel giving a bad name to C.B.clarinets and the wonderful St Andrews....i feel your pain AndyW!
Best
Pete
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-09-18 21:35
Scaysie, as long as the authorities that can chase these bastards are not interested, the only thing you can do is to flag the ad and to write publically about it together with the word scam. Then google can help potential victims find that information.
I think it is also effective to play games with the bastards and publish the account numbers they are using. They probably have to pay for them.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-09-22 14:42
When I saw an obvious auto-translation into German, I couldn't resist playing games with the scammer.
"Leblanc Clarinet Concerto II" became "Leblanc Klarinettenkonzert II" :-)
Anyway, this scam is a bit more advanced because a fake 3rd party with a web page www.rgf-ltd.com is involved. The domain rgf-ltd.com has been registered Sept 2nd.
The bank that is assisting this scam is Barclays, the #1 scam bank in the world.
-------------
From: Raul Bowler [mailto:raulbowler74@hotmail.com]
Sent: den 20 september 2015 09:52
Subject: Eddie Daniels Leblanc Klarinettenkonzert II (Kalaydo-Code: 78982924)
Hallo,
Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich bestätige, dass mein Angebot noch verfügbar ist. Ich bin Britischer und ich lebe in Manchester. Ich habe die letzten zwei Jahre in Ihrem Land gearbeitet, und ich kam gerade zurück zu England. Wenn Sie interessiert sind in diesem Kauf, werde ich für die Verpackung und Lieferung zu bezahlen. Ich stehe zu Ihrer Verfügung für weitere Informationen.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen.
Raul Bowler.
-------------
Hello,
Sorry but I do not have any other pictures of the Clarinet.
The Clarinet Recital II is in Manchester. Ok, total price including shipping is 900 EUR .
For delivery and payment , I use a professional shipping company. The company is responsible for the transaction.
I take the Clarinet of the company and I will pay for transportation . They will send you a payment request . You make the payment to the shipping company - by bank transfer.The delivery starts ( should take about 3 days). You receive theClarinet Recital II, and after you receive them ,you have 10 days to decide whether to buy it or not . You buy - the company leads me the money. If by any reasons you do not want to buy it - the company you send the money back . Please let me know if you accept these terms and send me your name, complete address and landline so I can look for the possibility of delivery.
P.S.: For your safety, I have attached a copy of my ID.
Best Regards,
Raul Bowler, 23 Rainforth St, Manchester M13 0RP, United Kingdom.
-------------
Hi,
Ok. Tomorrow morning I go to the company to begin the transaction.
Have a quiet Sunday.
Regards,
Raul Bowler.
-------------
Hello,
Today the company sent the email with details of transport and payment.
Please tell me if you have received this email from the company.
Waiting for your response.
Regards,
Raul Bowler.
________________________________________
From: RGF-LogisticLTD@consultant.com
CC: raulbowler74@hotmail.com
Subject: Transaction Started - Tracking Number #3BP31702F1
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 11:54:24 +0200
Dear XXX,
This message was sent to notify you that the seller Raul Bowler has
deposited in our custody a package for you.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transaction Details:
Item name: Eddie Daniels Leblanc Clarinet Recital II + Orig. Documents
Quantity: 1
Unit price: EUR 900,00
Tracking Number: #3BP31702F1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now you can proceed with the Payment to our custody.
Payment Details:
The payment must be made through Bank wire transfer to the following
account:
Account Manager : RGF Logistics Ltd
IBAN: GB56 BARC 2026 0893 7311 54
Sort Code: 20-26-08
Swift/BIC: BARCGB22TRD
Account Number: 93731154
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
After you make the Payment, please email us the following information:
- Scanned paper receipt from bank.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Within 3 business days, you will receive the merchandise and you must
inspect it. If it is complete and as described, you should accept the
merchandise and our Team will send the funds to the seller.
If you refuse the merchandise, our Team will ship the merchandise back to
the seller. Then you will receive a full refund.
Thank you for choosing Logistics Limited Ltd®
www.rgf-ltd.com
RGF-Logistics-LTD@consultant.com
Tel: +44 (0) 7405 286329
Fax: +44 (0) 7440 784667
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2020-02-12 01:02
Attachment: marcogentile.jpg (241k)
Attachment: marcogentileenel.jpg (1444k)
Scammers are getting more sophisticated and ruthless.
This Ebay profile has existed since 2012 and is verified but the real person behind it has probably had his identity stolen in recent years, probably during a break-in where id documents have been captured.
https://www.ebay.com/usr/caronte71
The scammer was able to provide a photo of a bill from an electrical company where the name and adress of the "seller" appeared. What made me suspicious, though, was that the bill was a couple of years old. What made me even more suspicious was that he supplied a copy of the passport.
When I asked for a telephone number to call and photos of specific parts of the instrument, the scammer entered the "ultimatum" stage:
"You asked for proof of address. You can also see it on my identity card, which is valid. So, stop playing with me. If you don't pay tomorrow, I will cancel the transaction. I don't like the word "scammer"..."
In general, scammers very often:
* send copies of passports
* have some compelling story to tell (exploiting people's empathy)
This is the explanation the scammer gave for not being able to give out a telephone number: "I am sorry, but I can not talk on the phone, because I had a surgery in my mouth and is impossible to talk."
I publish the name and id documents here to make them findable with google:
"Here are the bank details, so you can pay :
Beneficiary: Marco Gentile
IBAN: IT69J0760103200001048222457
BIC/SWIFT: BPPIITRRXXX
Bank name: POSTE ITALIANE SPA
Bank address: Viale Europa 175, Roma, 00144, Italy
Please give me the exact address for delivery, phone number and email address, for courier.
Waiting for payment confirmation.
Regards,
Marco"
Post Edited (2020-02-12 01:24)
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Author: Erez Katz
Date: 2020-02-12 07:35
When a US bank account is concerned, I would avoid sharing bank account details with untrusted parties. In the US, ACH withdrawl requests are in many cases approved by the branch with little checking, if any, and are not insured nor are not reversible, unlike credit card transactions that can disputed within 45 days.
I am not referring to the case where the buyer initiates an ACH transfer to another party, rather the other party presents a request to withdraw money from your account. Unless the branch has an explicit policy not to approve such requests without contacting you first for approval, the request would debit the account.
The only remedy then is outside the bank, either relying on the other party honesty or taking it to court.
Yes, this means that checks that contain the exact same data pose the same threat.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2020-02-16 19:43
My identity has been stolen on my credit and debit card, twice in the last 6 months. Not even had my credit card out of my wallet in a year!
Right now, I'm "dead in the water" as I am waiting on a new debit card to arrive, because the old one was compromised, in some way ...
We hear about our personal information being plundered all the time. I'm sick of it. Computers are ruining our society. The average kid spends 9 hours/day on their smart phone. The average office worker wastes 2 hours/day surfing the internet. The internet is a effective tool for criminals to steal from us, and at little risk of being caught.
I'm turning into a Neo Luddite. I'd abolish everything with integrated binary circuitry ... that is, all computing devices including main-frames, personal computers and cell phones. No internet. Back to analog. I doubt if we can build analog computers that will match the computing power of digital ... so we should be safe for a few decades.
No CNC, of course, either. Hand made clarinets again!
Maybe at 67 years young, I'm just a curmudgeon.
Tom
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2020-02-17 00:55
TomS,
The documents I received photos of had probably been stolen during an old-fashioned break-in. Computers don't commit crimes. People do.
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The Clarinet Pages
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