 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2015-04-13 18:07
HELP!!! My new clarinet is stuck together at the middle joint and I can't get it apart. It's been difficult getting the two sections apart (the 2 sections where all the keys are) since I got it a month ago and I've been gradually reducing the thickness of the cork with sand paper. However, after a rehearsal yesterday, I had to drive home with the two sections stuck together because I absolutely could not get them apart. What do you recommend I do? Should I just take it to my technician and have her try to separate the parts and replace the cork with something much thinner? I've used a generous amount of cork grease on the joint every time I've put my clarinet together. I would love to be able to separate them myself so they can be put safely back into their case before I have the cork replaced. Thank you for any wise advice you can offer.
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Author: Jamnik
Date: 2015-04-13 20:03
Time is the best tool here. The tenon of the upper joint has swollen and is keeping the joints stuck together. Once the moisture in the joint subsides, they should come apart easily. The cork is probably not the entire problem here. The actual wood may be causing the tight fit and may need a tiny bit taken off once apart.
Jamnik
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-04-13 23:32
The cork is NOT the problem. The wood of the tenon is binding inside the socket because it has warped oval. Leaving unplayed for a few days may help it release but in any case you should take it to your tech to have a few thou skimmed off of the critical areas. asap. Don't reassemble and play it until this has been done.
The tech will probably need to fit a new cork anyway to replace the one you have sanded down.
Is this a Buffet!!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-04-14 01:53
But there is a lesson learned here. Joints should should put together and come apart with some resistance but with relative ease. ALWAYS have a technician adjust this (no matter how careful, scraping away with sandpaper is haphazard at best and will not be even all around the circumference of the tenon).
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-04-14 02:15
Be careful how much wood is removed from the tenon as the last thing you want are rocking tenons - especially the middle tenon as that will cause problems with long Bb and you'll feel the joints rocking whilst playing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2015-04-14 04:31
I suspect the wood is swollen under the socket ring. There is usually where we remove wood on Buffet clarinets.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-04-14 07:50
Had the same issue with my Yamaha clarinets, years ago. No big deal ... find a good shop and they will turn the tenon down on the lathe. After that, you may have no more problems ... the wood has absorbed moisture from playing and maybe from your climate. Be sure to always dry the joints very well after playing and don't leave your clarinet assembled once finished playing, without swabbing and drying the joints ...
Enjoy your new instrument!
Tom
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2015-04-14 22:09
Thanks, folks. I'm not out of "Panic Mode." I'm taking my new "baby" down to the shop as soon as lunch break is over.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-04-14 22:30
You don't need to use a lathe to do this - chances of removing too much wood is a risk using a lathe.
It's best having the high spots removed by hand using a sharp scraper as there only has to be the minimum amount of wood dust removed in order for the tenon to fit nicely in the socket without binding nor wobbling.
It's easy to see where the high spots are as they're usually shiny, so it's a case of lightly scraping them then checking progress with regards to the fit of the tenon in its socket - best doing this bit by bit instead of removing a lot of wood in one go.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-04-15 00:15
I think the shop I used to turn my tenons just wanted to do it in a precise and classic manner ... yup, you can hand sand it too ... but on a new Buffet, I'd leave it to the professionals ...
I wonder if the synthetic cork might be a good idea, if cork is contributing to part of the sticking problem?
Tom
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2015-04-15 00:33
My technician is beginning the process by assuming it's the cork. I've copied off the various suggestions all of you have made and given them to her. I trust her completely...thank goodness!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-04-15 00:50
Synthetic cork isn't suitable for tenon corks - I've never found anything that can better natural cork in this application.
It's rarely ever the cork that causes tenons to bind in their sockets on a clarinet that is always separated after playing, so I seriously doubt the cork is to blame here as binding joints are mostly caused by the wood on both the tenon rings and the socket binding if the wood has swollen through higher humidity levels caused by playing.
The only instances I've ever seen the cork to be causing binding is when the bells are left on the lower joints and never separated or the water that collects in them is dried after playing, so over time the cork bonds to the sockets and makes separating the joint very difficult. Sometimes the cork has come away from the tenon but is still binding to the socket so the bell can rotate but still won't come apart from the tenon.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-04-15 03:34
Binding tenons is a common problem on new Buffets, and has been for years. It's nearly always the wood, not the cork. Makes you wonder what their Q.A. people are there for?
Tony F.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-04-15 04:27
Funny someone should mention synthetic cork. I've been auditing a Buffet Divine for awhile and I actually like the synthetic cork they use (never really saw anything like this before). It is a charcoal color material, almost rubbery to the touch. It is a bit 'draggy,' but you NEVER use lubricant on it (I guess you can put the money you will save on cork grease toward these clarinets !!!).
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-04-15 10:39
As others wrote, it's rarely the cork that causes this problem. I wouldn't "assume" it's the cork.
It's usually possible to feel if it is the cork or not. In most cases it is the inner shoulder of the tenon that is binding. Once the joints are apart, try assembling very slowly and see if it feels different and more resistant once you start inserting that inner shoulder into the socket. If it does then that's the problem (almost sure). If it doesn't, it's also possible that it's the problem (released and then needs more playing to get stuck again), but it could be something else.
As far using a lathe or not, it's definitely possible to do this on a lathe, but it's not necessarily better. It's not really "less professional" to not do this with a lathe. I still use a lathe mainly because it's faster if there's a lot to remove.
>> I wonder if the synthetic cork might be a good idea, if cork is contributing to part of the sticking problem? <<
The millions of cork joints on many musical instruments over decades (or centuries? not sure for how long it has been used) show there is no problem of binding.
The only times I've seen corks causing binding is when the cork is significantly too thick (but then assembling is a problem) or when the glue gets ruined allowing the cork to spin along with the socket. Both are also possible with synthetic cork.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-06-07 16:14
Wood is affected by changes in humidity more than temperature.
While using heat and cold is useful in undoing two stuck together glass bowls that have been stacked after washing and drying, applying that principle to wooden clarinets won't be straightforward and may also cause damage.
But if you're prepared to give it a go on your own clarinet (and not anyone else's nor should anyone on else here try it), then let us know your findings and the source of heat and cold you plan to use.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2016-06-07 20:15
I wonder whether oiling the sockets and the non-corked portion of the tenon might be a good idea. I know opinions vary about how often to oil the bore, from never to monthly but might it be a good idea, especially on a new clarinet, to oil the socket-tenon joints with some regularity (whatever regularity means)?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-06-08 19:35
Sorry I can't resist. At my age I am more likely to have the problem of "clarinetist frozen at middle joint". Remedies will have to take a different direction.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2016-06-08 19:36)
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