 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SusieQ
Date: 2001-04-24 16:16
Hi all!
I am seriously looking to buy a new bass clarinet and with all the knowlegable people on this BB I though it would be a great place to get some opnions on the matter. I would like either a Vito or Selmer (Bundy) plastic bc with leather pads. The reason for the plastic is that 90% of the concerts I play in are outside and I live in a northern climate, if fact we had snow yesterday, yuck! If all you bass clarinetist out there could give me your opinion as to which one you prefer and how they compare to the older plastic models, it would be greatly appreciated. I have been looking for months on e-bay and what is there is either really expensive for a plastic instrument or missing pieces. Right now I have an old Bundy that plays OK, but it has seen it's better days.
Thanks,
SusieQ
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Author: William
Date: 2001-04-24 16:27
I've played both Vitos and Bundys prefer the latter every time for intonation, scale and ease in the "difficult" register (above top-line G#, etc). In fact, a well-known and repected mouthpiece manufacturer (who is an accomplished bass clarinetist) confided to me that a good plastic (Bundy) will play just as well as most top-line pro wooden models. Why not just get your current Bundy re-paded???
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Author: Jun
Date: 2001-04-24 17:14
i played with wooden bass clarinets most of the time such as buffet R13 presitge and i can tell you that i miss the one and only plastic bass clarinet which is a Bundy (very old.....older than me)...although the pads are spoiled, the feeling is there...i think the bundy is a good choice for outdoors....
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-04-24 17:44
I also prefer the bundy, however, I've played on selmer pro-basses before, and I really liked the neck of the selmer. I believe you can get a better mouthpiece, neck combo from Woodwind and Brasswind. I think Bay is the manufacturer. The stock neck with the bundy goes straight into your mouth like a saxophone, but the bay neck will angle the mouthpiece to be played like a real clarinet. It should help your sound.
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Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-04-24 18:18
You can get Bay Neck/Mouthpiece packages for both the Vito and the Bundy. However, they're $500. I do prefer the improved angle neck too. Honestly, the only beginner horn I played on was a Vito (with the Bay set up) which was owned by my middle school. As I understand it, its the exact same horn as the Yamaha. It was certainly an adequate horn for marching season and middle school, but I haven't really sat down and compared the two.
There are lots of good used Vitos/Yamahas & Bundy's running around eBay and the various classified sections. There is, IMO, no reason to buy new. You'll have to get either overhauled.
I should mention that C. Bay also makes custom plastic horns. I think they're rather pricey these days, but as I understand it he starts with a Vito/Yamaha as a blank and then undercuts the tone holes and makes several other modifications. The Bb players around often forget this, but Bay got his start making his improved angle necks and bass clarinet mouthpieces (AFAICR).
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-04-24 19:28
Like Dave Spiegenthal, [sp?], I've seen quite a number of bass cl's , working them up to playability and tuning up - "leveling-out" notes, and own several +, my best is a wood Selmer 31-33, next best is a rebuilt Linton plastic [which sounds like what might serve for you]. The Lintons were best known as oboe-bassoon makers in the mid 1900s, so mine may be a "stencilled" made by Conn or in France. It has low Eb, alternate Ab/Eb , but only one [but quite satisfactory] register vent , well-keyed for the pinch Bb. I also have a wood Conn [to low E only] with double register keying which is an "easy-player" . I'd suggest you continue to look on EBAY [which is where I got these] and not limit your consideration to Vito-Bundy. I hope Dave will chime in with further suggestions. Luck, Don
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Author: C. Hogue
Date: 2001-04-24 20:21
I, like you, play outdoors a lot. I've got an Evette bass that is hard rubber, not plastic, and it produces quite a nice tone. These horns, which were made in Paris by Buffet, come up on eBay now and then. Dave S. customized the neck (it was a straight-on) for much less than a new Bay neck and it works just great.
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Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-04-24 23:09
There are substantial reasons to buy from someone like Don Berger or Dave Spiegelthal. A new horn is nice, but Don and Dave will take a horn from eBay or somewhere else, and do a complete overhaul. This will include all kinds of tweaks that it takes a bass clarinet specalist to appreciate, including the an improved angle neck from time to time. Then they'll sell the horn. Therefore you've got a horn prepared by an able <i>bass</i> clarinetist, which has also been screened.
<p>
I should mention that my expierence with Dave may have been unusually <i>positive</i> as I bought one of his favorites, but it was <b><i>very</i></b> positive. The horn has certainly grown on me.
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Author: Ashley
Date: 2001-04-25 02:24
I've never played the Bundy, but i played a Vito for about 2 years (until my director discovered that the school owned a nice wood Selmer that a middle school kid was using) and i dont recommend it at all. I had to use the Vito again recently when mine was being fixed, and I could hardly play it. But try before you buy, and look for a used horn. It'll be cheaper and probably just as good.
~ashley~
(I however am going all out when i get my own bass a few years from now.. the Buffet or the Selmer, both w/ low C..lots and lots of $$$...)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-04-25 19:34
Thank you Stephen F, for including me with Dave S as a "restorer-improver" . No, I'm only in the LOCAL restoring-providing-selling business, usually student Bb's, an occasional sax. I merely wished to suggest that [if you have a good repair person available] there may be other options to new student-type bass cl's BUT , as in Music Man, You need to know the territory!!. When I looked over the EBAY offerings last, there was an old Conn plastic bass which looked just like my Linton, and which MIGHT be worthwhile! Its a jungle out there!! Cavaet emptor, Don
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Author: Francesca
Date: 2001-04-25 21:43
I'd definitely go for the Bundy. When I started on bass clarinet, I played for a year on both before switching to a wood Noblet. The Bundy consistently had a better tone and was much more able to play the high notes without sounding ugly.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-04-26 14:34
I am honored to have been mentioned along with Mr. Berger, who is unnecessarily modest about his accomplishments and talents, I'm sure.
As for the Conn and Linton plastic bass clarinets that were mentioned, I wonder if they are actually hard rubber instead of plastic? Forsooth, I seem to recall reading long ago that R. Malerne in Paris made quite a few 'stencil' hard-rubber bass clarinets for Linton and for Conn, which may be why Don's Conn (nice rhyme, huh?) looked like Don's Linton.
Back to the original topic --- I'm more of a Leblanc Dude than a Selmer Dude, so I generally prefer Vitos to Bundys (assuming, and this is important!, that the Vito bass has leather pads, NOT bladder/skin pads).
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-04-26 17:35
Thanx, Dave, self-assessment is not difficult when I look-at and watch pro work in Tulsa, OKC and Sugarland, TX ! The first repair job I recall was on my old P M full boehm, maybe thats why [except for some register-key problems] most bass and sax are within my engr. [chem not mech] skills. RE: plastics, you are right, most older horns are hard rubber [pretty much a "thermoset" not a "thermoplastic"] The new formulations dont seem to "green-brown" as badly as earlier. T-P's such as MMA, ABS, etc, [even a polypropylene bassoon patent and horns by Fox] are mentioned in brochures. RE: Robert Malerne, yes, I also believe he may be the mfgr. of many "stencils", Robert [ro-bear] also?? There is one near EBAY auction end now, needs a neck!! Incidentally, Don's Conn is giving him fits via the double register key mechanical-jungle, time to go to Tulsa!! Its great to chat! Don
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Author: SusieQ
Date: 2001-04-26 19:27
Thanks for all the great input! It sounds like the logical thing to do would be an overhaul on the old Bundy. The bad thing is that there isn't anyone I know of around here that would do a good job on it, so I would need to send it out $$$. That is why I was looking at a new bc. I have seen a few used ones e-bay, but with the price they were going for plus shipping and any repairs needed, I would be looking at spending more than just buying a new one. I still plan on keeping the Bundy, so I can have at least one working instrument at all times. These things sure are beasts, but a lot of fun. This BB is the best source of clarinet information I have found.
Thanks Again,
SusieQ
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-04-28 00:27
Check out the Sneezy Classifieds. Dave S... has a R. Malerne for a fair price. If I had that (the price that is) I would buy it. (He wouldn't take my Buescher (sp) in trade either) 8~}} As long as you are going to keep the Bundy you might as well treat yourself to a quality instrument.
Bob A
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Author: Wes
Date: 2001-04-28 20:00
Some players like the old Kohlert bass clarinets for their sound and, to me, they seem to have a very focussed sound. I know of two of them that have been extended to low C. I think the feel is a bit awkward, especially compared to a Leblanc. They are, like many bass clarinets, not so easy to work on.
If you find a Lefebre bass clarinet, it might be good. I like mine, including the tuning. It has a single octave key system which, to be in tune, requires very wide tonehole undercutting in the bottom of the instrument, a laborious task. It was probably sold as an intermediate level instrument in the mid 20th century by the Baxter Northrup company in Los Angeles. This class of instruments was reportedly partly made at home by French craftsmen from parts made by the major manufacturers and subcontracting manufacturers.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-04-30 15:16
I concur with Wes' comments about the old Kohlert basses --- after restoring four of them, one of which I play regularly, I'd say he's hit the mark dead on. They do have a nice, focused sound, their keywork feels a bit awkward and isn't the sturdiest, and they need quite a bit of work (especially with the finicky register mechanism) to make (and maintain) them playable. But if you can find one at a low purchase price, it could be worth the effort. I'm very fond of the Kohlerts.
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-06-02 14:31
What's that old song? "There I've Done It Again." You have to be old to rember that one. Well, I finally did it. Bought an "older" Conn off of eBay (which might be a Linton or Malerne stencil) and am having it shipped to Dave Spiegelthal for reconditioning (among other things it has a busted key, etc.) Why Dave? Because he has done other work for me (A Robert Malerne Bb and several mouthpieces) and I am well pleased with his work. This way I get a quality horn from a professional bass clarinet player. Now, if only some of his talent and technique came with it. I'll post later when I get it in case I have to retract [Only kidding Dave]
Bob A
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