 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-26 01:22
Many of us agree that Buffet clarinets, while certainly not a brand to scoff at, have variability.
If you think this variablity more so that the other 3 big clarinet maker's wood instruments (LeBlanc, Selmer, Yahama), I'm curious to know the factor(s) that you attribute to this.
Post Edited (2015-02-26 01:55)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-26 01:40
Mainly having to put out a huge number of clarinets and doing so by kiln drying billets.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-02-26 03:55
I have tested a big enough number of Buffet and Leblanc sopranos to be able to say something about intonation. I don't see a greater variation in the Buffets but they have systematically worse intonation. Tradeoff for something else or not? If it were, I would expect Buffet to offer a model where intonation is priority. Not everyone prioritizes the ability to play louder than everyone else.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-26 04:21
So Johan, you actually find Buffets consistent in their inability to tune: consistently inconsistent (with regards to tuning) if you will.
I wouldn't guess you hold this belief with tremendous zeal (maybe you do) but perhaps more so than subscribing to the school of thought that "some Buffets are good, some are not."
Do you think this is part of its design limitations?
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I'm just trying to capture your sentiments.
Post Edited (2015-02-26 04:24)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-02-26 04:45
I can't speak from vast experience of playing buffets, but those that I have played have shown some degree of variation in tone and resistance. This was mostly with the same mouthpiece. What I have also found is a problem with quality control with Buffet products, although their more recent offerings are better in this regard. For years now E11's and R13's have had known problems with tenon fitting, but Buffet have continued to produce them without any apparent improvements being made. Buffet must have been aware of this situation, but seem oblivious to it. Whether this is due to commercial pressure to produce enormous numbers of instruments or to arrogance I cannot say.
Tony F.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2015-02-26 09:00
Yeah, I had the issue with the tenons (mainly the central joint) on the R13 I bought a few years ago, but this was easily fixed by the Brannen's when I had the thing setup for me with their new instrument overhaul. Hasn't been an issue since. It was obviously a bigger issue in the summer months due to the swelling - I could hardly get the instrument apart (I usually waited a few hours before packing it up to let it cool and shrink back down). Again, I asked Linda to pay extra care to this issue and they fixed it, no problem. Otherwise it's a great instrument, good intonation across the registers and surprisingly good throat tone intonation and tone. Usually when I have an issue it isn't the clarinet, it's the player. 
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-26 09:19
I have heard, from a reliable source, that the wood, as it comes from the supplier, (usually German) is not normally graded or marked as far as origin of what part of the tree (near the heart or not ...) it was cut from. It's up to the manufacturer to inspect it and decide. And, it is impossible to determine how that particular piece of wood will sound once it is made into a clarinet. Different pieces will sound different, and once it is becomes an instrument, and play tested, you're done. So, this is one problem, just the variability of wood density, grain, etc.
Gosh, even synthetic reeds, with all the science and precision in manufacturing seem to vary a bit from reed to reed ...! If cane reeds vary as much as they do, it's no wonder that Blackwood does as well ...
I had a teacher (George) that owned an old R13 and it had the darkest sound of any I've heard. Why? George loved his old Buffet but searched for a replacement, because it was basically worn out. Almost bought a Selmer Recital but finally settled on a Yamaha YCL-72. I don't know if the Yamaha had similar sound, but I think it tuned and played better ...
Tom
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Author: eddiec ★2017
Date: 2015-02-26 10:41
When Buffet shapes the wood, how many cuts do they take? Ideally, the wood would be cut in several stages to relieve internal stress and reduce deformation.
Some manufacturers claim to do this. I don't know about Buffet. If they didn't, that would introduce variability.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-02-26 11:56
There is a very basic and technical main reason Buffet clarinets are variable.
After the bore is almost at the right size, the bore size and shape is finished with a reamer. That reamer is held at one end with a lot of runout and then a human is pushing the clarinet on it, stopping by... looking at a mark. This is very inaccurate.
The thing is, they are purposely making them this way to cause variety. This is so when someone tries several or many clarinets they can find the ones they like. AFAIK they have always used this approach to manufacturing clarinets.
You can see all of this if you visit the Buffet factory.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-02-26 13:50
Having Buffet clarinets from 1912 to 2012, a total of 7, I love them all. In buying a 2005 R13, I had a dozen to try at the Buffet distributor facility. There were slight differences between them and while they all played, they all would have benefitted from more set up work, such as the Brannens do so well.
If you do not like them, buy something else.
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Author: Wisco99
Date: 2015-02-26 16:38
I have a 1975 150th anniversary model R13 that Brannen's worked their magic on. The intonation is as good as it gets, and it still plays fantastic. Sometimes you get lucky.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-26 16:46
Yeah, I cringe when I see the bore being hand reamed and polished. If Buffet still uses this hand process, no wonder the variability. Add to that small differences in pad heights, sealing, etc ... I suspect much could be due to how well they are padded and tweaked.
But, the wood itself can be a factor, as well.
Would be interesting to play an R13 clone, constructed by Backun ...
However, my last R13 was a gem ...
Tom
Post Edited (2015-02-26 16:49)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-02-26 17:55
The sadly withdrawn Leblanc Infinite was an R13 clone that tuned better than most R13s.
Guy Chadash makes excellent R13 clones.
The Buffet Vintage is a clone of the original 1955 R13, with it's amazing sound and feel, and also with its tuning problems.
Finally, I play R13s and pre-R13s set up by Kal Opperman that are the best I've ever tried.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-02-26 20:23
WhitePlainsDave wrote:
"I wouldn't guess you hold this belief with tremendous zeal (maybe you do) but perhaps more so than subscribing to the school of thought that "some Buffets are good, some are not."
I am not subscribing to anything (apart from the belief in science, reason, cause and effect, quantification, etc.)
When I measure intonation in a systematic and repeatable fashion, the Buffet soprano clarinets show a bigger deviation than the Leblancs.
I haven't seen a really good Buffet when it comes to intonation. They are all average to bad. Leblancs can be all from excellent to bad.
"Do you think this is part of its design limitations?"
It seems the company doesn't care about intonation as much as Leblanc did.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-27 02:34
Ken,
Are you saying that you have tried the Chadash clarinets with some success?
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-02-27 03:31
Paul -
I have played a couple of Chadash clarinets and heard good people play several more. I think they're excellent.
Ken Shaw
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