 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kararae02
Date: 2015-02-24 22:05
My new R13 (had it for about three weeks) will not play in tune. I have tried a bunch of different mouthpieces (all various tip openings) and cannot play in tune on any of them. The only one that I can play in tune with is the stock mouthpiece and the tone quality is horrible. Does anyone have any suggestions?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-24 22:11
The stock mouthpiece has a smaller tone chamber and WILL play higher. If you just get a shorter barrel (perhaps just the next size down.....65mm) that may clear it up.
Remember to warm up first. And if you are trying to do this in a cool room (literally at 65 degrees fahrenheit kind of cold) then you are fighting a losing battle.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-02-24 22:45
This question could have so many different meanings, it's hard to to even attempt an answer that could be helpful.
What exactly are you having trouble doing? Matching a tuner when you play a scale? Playing in tune with a band? Are you playing sharp or flat? Uniformly or on certain notes?
What other instrument that you've played previously are you comparing this R-13 to? What mouthpiece were you using when you first noticed the problem?
"In tune" has so many different contexts and each could have various causes. Please give us more to work with.
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-02-24 22:48
What's wrong with the intonation? Are you consistently sharp? Flat? Are the registers out of tune with each other? Are the throat tone sharp? Flat? Anything else?
Ken Shaw
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Author: kararae02
Date: 2015-02-25 10:01
I can't get my pitch to match a tuner, or to anyone else really. I am always 10 to 20 cents flat
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-02-25 12:41
Were you able to play in tune with the tuner and with everyone else on a different clarinet before you got the Buffet? What length barrel are you using? Is the whole clarinet 10-20 cents flat or are some notes more in tune (it would be unusual for every note to be the same deviation relative to 440 Hz)? Is your tuner calibrated to A=440? Are you checking when the clarinet is cold (when you first start playing it) or after it's been warmed up?
Since it's going to come up anyway sooner or later, what reed and mouthpiece are you playing on? I know you said you tried several mouthpieces and that the Buffet stock mouthpiece plays in tune but with "horrible" tone quality. But you must have been playing on some other mouthpiece before you bought the R13.
There are a number of possible problems you might be having; first and foremost, too long a barrel (standard R13 Bb clarinet barrel is, AFAIK, 66 mm - did yours come with a 67 mm?) But there are other possibilities depending on your answers to the questions in my first paragraph.
What is your experience level on the clarinet? Is this clarinet new, or just new to you (did you buy it used)? Do you have a teacher who could listen first-hand and be able to see and hear what's going on? Have you brought it back to the place you bought it and asked someone there about the problem? Have you brought it to a repair tech to have it checked out? The best person to get to the bottom of this would be a competent repair tech who can hear, see and play on the clarinet him- or herself. You're going to get a lot of blind guesses here without more detail.
Karl
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-25 16:35
I'd get a really good teacher or professional (an R13 player, if possible) to play your setup in front of a calibrated tuner and assess what is going on ... that could short-circuit a lot of guess work and experimentation and time ... A good teacher is often your best resource to fix problems.
My R13s with a Scott 66mm barrel and Vandoren M13 were right on the money, except for a few well known tuning issues in the design ... with a good ear and some intelligent finesse, and the right setup, this clarinet can be played in tune.
Tom
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-02-25 16:50
Guy Chadash says the Vandoren B40 plays noticeably higher than their other models. You might try one of them. A 65mm barrel will also help, though the throat tones and the top of the clarion register will be sharp.
The mouthpieces that come with Buffets are notoriously bad, but at least the older ones were made of good material and could be reworked to play well.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-02-25 17:38
Ken Shaw wrote:
> Guy Chadash says the Vandoren B40 plays noticeably higher than
> their other models.
Is he talking about a Series 13 or a Traditional B40? Any the Traditional models, as far as I know, will tune higher than the 13s. (But, I don't think 20 cents higher.)
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-02-25 17:46
Karl -
I don't remember. It's just something I heard him say and noted in my miscellaneous Clarinet file at least 5 years ago or maybe more.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kararae02
Date: 2015-02-25 20:18
I bought my R13 brand new. I have tried a Vandoren Masters CL4, a Rico Reserve X0, Rico Reserve X10, and a Kessler Custom By Backun Model II.
I've tried a lot of different reeds and various strengths. I've tried Vandoren Traditional 3 1/2, Vandoren V12 3, Reserve Classic 3 1/2, Legere Signature Series 3.
My plastic clarinet was a Buffet B12 which I understand has a shorter barrel, so I may just need to try a shorter barrel, but is there anything that could be wrong with the clarinet that would cause it to act that way?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-25 20:38
Wow, the B12 is probably the worst clarinet on the market. So if you are used to playing THAT, it may take a hot minute to get used to a professional grade instrument.
I don't hear you saying that you checked the tuning on the CL4. If that was not a "13 Series" CL4, your problems would be solved (that is a very nice mouthpiece indeed).
But I agree with the other postings: You need to have YOUR TEACHER help you with this. There are probably many layers of things going on for you in how you approach playing. When I complain about Buffet tuning (and I have) it is just that their wooden clarinets can be a little inconsistent in how certain "notes of concern" can tune differently from one horn to another. YOU need to find the instrument whose notes tune the way you prefer to play. As a newer player, you probably have not developed any particular habits along these lines and YOU will adapt to THIS horn.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-25 22:18
Kara...see what TomS recommemded?
You've got to get this instrument in a good player's hands to determine how much of the problem lies with (no offense intended) you versus the equipment.
Until then, we just may be throwing stuff against the wall with suggestions, hoping one works; not that suggestions up to now haven't tried to address the most obvious things.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-26 23:34
Kara...I had another thought tangentially alluded to above.
Make sure who ever tries your clarinet, especially if its someone from the store it was purchased from, is not using a mouthpiece designed for A=442, and then showing you on a tuner that he or she is in perfect tune where A=440.
As you may know, the prior is a version of the concert "A" pitch played ever so slightly sharper. Many orchestras tune to A=442, IMHO, in a futile attempt to sound brighter that "the other guys," but that's a discussion for another bboard thread.
Accordingly, mouthpiece makers like Vandoren often make the same mouthpiece for both of these scales. And playing your clarinet at A=440 with an A=442 mouthpiece is reflective of a problem, more than a solution.
While it my be a temporary solution, what if you ever encounter a group that plays closer to A=442? Switching mouthpiece will no longer address that. Barrels you use will have to become especially shorter to deal with this sharpness on what might potentially be an inherently flat instrument.
If the store tries this without open disclosure of same, IMHO they are stupid or worse snake oil salesmen.
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