Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-22 07:22
I'm taking the "return the clarinet" position here: not simply because it's where I tend to side, by as counterpoint to Paul and Karl, so you get a rounded response.
If the clarinet universally has been tested by a series of players, and cannot be reasonably tuned, without the equipment swapping the guys above suggest, I say return it.
When I say reasonably tuned, I mean that across the entire spectrum of the instrument (lets even forget low E and F which tend to be flat on most clarinets) if notes can't remain within far far less than 30 cents from key, I am not happy. Yes, clarinets are inherently imperfect in their intonation, designers make compromises in one note for the sake of another, but good ones are not vastly and consistently out of tune.
(This is not disparaging against Yamaha, just maybe 1 of their clarinets. All manufacturers have their "duds.")
It's not to say that Paul and Karl's suggestions aren't good, but a couple of points come to mind.
First, said accessories, should they solve your problem and you agree to them, should be paid for by the clarinet seller I think; if that comes in the form of further cost reductions, so be it. You have a right to a basically properly function instrument, that can hone in on and maintain reasonable tune, or a considerable reduction in price if it's not. Even then, with price slashing I would be inclinded to return it.
Now--the above would be my sentiments as applied to an instrument with standard length sections.
The proprietary size of these barrels scares me even more.
Second, and this is not a dig against Karl's suggestion, but something strikes me the wrong way about having to use a mouthpiece for A=442 play, just to get A=440 play.
A clarinet with an A=400 mouthpiece should play around A=440, I think. Just for argument sake, what if your daughter is ever called upon to play A=442 in an orchestra? What do you do then? What if the oboe that gives the note to the rest of the band/orchestra plays sharp?
Third, the more the barrel deviates in size from that optimized for the instrument the more that tones that voice out of holes closer to the barrel are affected, as compared to those that voice out of tone holes closer to the floor. This is why when your mega-sharp, pulling the clarinet out not only at the barrel, but between the joints is indicated.
(True, this is less pronounced on clarinets with inherently shorter barrels like a Rossi, or this Yamaha.)
"The music store is suggesting we can get a shorter barrel."
This angers me. Lets assume a group of players have tried the horn and all found it flat.
They're suggest you pay for solutions to their problem horn?
I don't know for a fact is has problems. But, again, if a group of good players all play it flat, with different mouthpieces, etc. it's a lemon. Do not make lemonade out of it (i.e. make the best of the situation) bring it back.
So, when you buy a new car and the air conditioning doesn't work, the dealer says, you should buy yourself a fan. Sorry. I wouldn't even accept their paying for the fan. Again, it's one thing if the problem is endemic to your child. It's quite another thing if a series of skilled players all play flat.
"At this point, I just want to return it."
I'd like to see someone in the store play it on an A=440 mouthpiece and get decent tuning (based on a scale at A=440 of course) across its range, before I would even consider keeping it.
"Our local music store had a great deal on a brand new Yamaha CSG which had been sitting unpurchased since the CSGII came out."
Maybe sitting around before the CSGII came out too, as Karl suggested, if you know what I mean.
I'm surprised at Karl and Paul's posts here. It's not that I think their wrong (I could be wrong) so much as I would have expected them to not keep the instrument. Of course we all work in the dark here.
It would be one thing if you inherited the instrument and we responders were tasked with the job of getting it to play in tune. My approach and response would be entirely different, and more consistent with theirs.
But this is new.
Maybe they will share with us why they went the hardware route. They certainly know their stuff.
Karl, Paul, would you buy a clarinet inherently way out of tune (assuming this is truly the case here) unless (or even if) you got some super deal on it? If the answer is, "it depends," then what does it depend upon for you?
And of course Karl and Paul's knowledge, including resources to address this (clarinet accousticians, barrel makers) may be a hassle you'd rather not go through.
By analogy: Paul and Karl may enjoy the fixer upper house more than you, looking for a turnkey, ready to move it property, because they're better at fixing than you. Their answer may (or may not) have been, maybe not even at the conscience level, more "here's what I'd do," than "Kevin, are YOU willing to do these things."
They may also be able to try a lot more things before purchase than you, given their access to hardware they've collected over the years. Not that ligatures matter here, but Paul, what's the current count....137 ligs?
Here's what I fear is happening, by analogy. You've come to the Chevy car bboard. Mechanically inclined people respond. You speak of this nice little car you found at a great price, but the timing's a little bit off.
A poster with best of intentions says, "get the baby, just slam some B62 rods under the transverse rotator cylinder head pump and she'll purr like a kitten."
And you say, "yeah, but when I bought it new, I not only expected that wouldn't be a problem, but I'm not that good with cars."
So...how good are you with clarinet accoustics problems?
If I asked you, "how are the 12th's," would you know what that means?
Let me not assume. In simple terms, play a note in the low register with the left thumb covering the tone hole, but not on the octave key. Now apply the octave key. These notes are [suppose to be, withing tuning reason] a musical 12th apart. How do they compare on the tuner? If they are out of key, are they consistently (by the same much) out of key?
To me, this is more than getting a reduction in price to buy new hardware to fix this problem.
I say, if the problem is shown to not be solely your daughters, (and you did say the teacher reproduced the problem) take it back, done deal. Use the warranty period for what it is intended for.
My sentiments in a nutshell:
You will not miss the cost savings over the life of the instrument. You WILL miss, over the life of the instrument playing one out of wack if you can't resolve this. Take this money and buy a Ridenour clarinet (great value, very affordable.) Tuning simply won't have to be an issue you have to contend with much, period.
An analogy, maybe a loose one: Would you buy a house (clarinet) with a weak or non level foundation even if I offered you the greatest adjusting strong walls (different mouthpiece/different barrel) with it to compensate?
Some things are only as good as their foundation.
If I was running the store, I would show you that I could play the clarinet in tune, and do so with no special tricks.
Another question, how's the musical temperament, in other words the acoustical spacing between notes?
I.e. when you play scales are they all over the place or the instrument is universally and consistently (or not consistently) flat?
This may be a "project house," that you don't want to take the time, or spend the money on to fix.
Paul and Karl are very knowledgeable, perhaps more than me. I wish them no disrespect. Again, I'm curious to their insight here.
Post Edited (2015-02-22 07:36)
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The Clarinet BBoard
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