 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kevin_bkt
Date: 2015-02-22 04:39
I've been in the process of buying my daughter a new professional Bb clarinet. Our local music store had a great deal on a brand new Yamaha CSG which had been sitting unpurchased since the CSGII came out. I don't have a ton of money, so the prospect of being able to afford a brand new instrument got me excited. My daughter tried it out, we loved the sound, as did her tutor, so I bought it.
The first day she took the instrument to school, she found she wasn't able to get it in tune. When she came home and told me this, I kicked myself because we had been so caught up in the excitement of finding this instrument that we hadn't taken out the tuner to check the intonation. So now, after checking it, I saw that it was pretty flat from A through C over the break, the worst being Bb at -30 cents.
I took the instrument back, knowing I had a week grace period to return it. The store suggested we let one of their techs look at it, which I agreed to. The next day, I was told there was an issue with a screw that had been fixed, and that the instrument was fine. I had our tutor check it out, and she said that while the pitch had been evened out, the entire instrument now plays flat!
At this point, I just want to return it. The music store is suggesting we can get a shorter barrel. Ok, I'm no professional musician, but it seems to me that there's something wrong if I can't get a pro-level instrument to play in tune with all of the original parts. Especially given that the CSG already has a barrel that's 9mm shorter than standard. Am I out of line here? Are they being reasonable with the barrel suggestion, or is this clarinet just a lemon?
Any input would be appreciated!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-22 05:05
Uh, no, not a lemon - but.....
These clarinets went through a testing period before being marketed here in the States. Apparently all the clarinetists they pole must have played naturally sharp. So the barrel that comes with the original CSG is the 56.5mm (or something like that) and it is for the most part too long. You can order Yamaha 53.6mm (or something like that - the shortest barrel) that will work fine. I also got a custom barrel from Dr. Alan Segal of this Bulletin Board of 54mm that is just terrific.
It would also help to use a sharper mouthpiece (if your daughter uses a Vandoren M series or 13 Series mouthpiece, moving to a "Standard Pitch" mouthpiece will also do the trick).
These are WONDERFUL clarinets that are beautifully in tune (across the scale that is, moving from note to note), so you DID get a great horn.
Oh, one other thing to be aware of. The pads are amazing until they start to wear out (with really heavy use this could be as short as a year). They will fail around the plastic buttons you see at the center of each pad. This makes it much harder to see the failure and harder to diagnose. Just switch out with cork on the upper joint and triple fish-skin pads on the bottom once this begins to happen.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-02-22 05:54
It *might* be OK if they'll supply the shorter barrel gratis. The original equipment barrel is supposed to be 56.5 mm (from Yamaha's website). Have you measured it, and is that what it is?
I don't know anything about Yamaha "pro" instruments except that they have their enthusiasts and Yamaha generally makes a very good product. I always liked the student level Yamahas the kids rented when I was teaching full time, but I've never spent any time playing their higher level clarinets.
They're obviously anxious to sell it. If you're willing to walk away from it if necessary, you could bargain for a shorter barrel at their expense, or insist on having a second opinion from another competent tech of *your* choice about the instrument.
I have to say that for myself, I would think twice about buying an instrument that doesn't have standard-size parts. No other Bb clarinet I've seen uses anything like a 56.5 mm barrel, so if your daughter decides later she'd like to try an after-market barrel, she will be limited to Yamaha's products or pay the cost to have a custom maker cut one specifically for her. But others may have another opinion about that.
A couple of other thoughts: (1) If the clarinet sat unplayed for a time, the bore may have changed and taken the intonation with it. A couple of weeks of playing it might restore its original pitch, if this is the case; (2) your daughter's mouthpiece may be causing (or at least contributing to) the flatness. The Vandoren Series 13 mouthpieces, while very good and very popular, are designed to play at a lower pitch (A=440 Hz) than their Traditional mouthpieces, which are nominally meant to play at A=442 Hz, supposedly more common in Europe than in the U.S.. If your daughter is playing on a Vandoren Series 13 (M13, M13 Lyre, M15, or any of the more open ones with a small 13 to the right of the bottom of the reed table), a different mouthpiece may solve the pitch problem, but at the added cost of a new mouthpiece.
Karl
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-02-22 06:06
I didn't see your post until after I sent mine. I wonder why the clarinet would have been naturally sharp to the extent that it needed a barrel 10 mm shorter than other clarinets. This can't have been accidental, or something that no one anticipated during the design stages. Have you heard any reason why they were designed this way?
Alan makes excellent barrels (I bought a couple of custom ones for a C clarinet I have). But I don't know if, once Kevin buys a barrel (if he has to pay for it from Yamaha or from Alan) and a sharper mouthpiece, the price will still be so good.
Maybe you know - I wondered, when I read the part in Kevin's post relating this instrument's lack of sale-ability to the introduction on the CSGII, how much the two have to do with each other. Yamaha's website describes the CSGII as having a "smaller, German style bore design." Is this being marketed as a successor to the CSG, or is it a different animal?
Karl
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Author: j8649
Date: 2015-02-22 06:44
Backun Musical Services makes clarinet barrels for the Yamaha CSG clarinet. Send them an email to order one. I was told by the Yamaha dealer that the only difference between the CSG and the CSG II was the addition of the the low F vent key. As for the short barrel, the CSG is designed to have a longer upper joint (supposedly for better intonation) and that is why the barrel is shorter than normal. This isn't a new concept. Some of the Selmer pro models (Recital) also have short barrels (62mm).
I wouldn't rush to judgement. The CSG are wonderful horns, but they are different, and they take a bit of time to get use to. Have a tech look the horn over. Take time to break the instrument in. Try a some different mouthpieces. I think you will be glad that you purchased a CSG.
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2015-02-22 06:55
Try something like Paul suggested (a trad. Vandoren mouthpiece in the NON-13 series), or the Reserve mouthpiece, or even the M30 and B40D mouthpieces. I heard these particular models are a bit higher than 440, which may work.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-22 07:22
I'm taking the "return the clarinet" position here: not simply because it's where I tend to side, by as counterpoint to Paul and Karl, so you get a rounded response.
If the clarinet universally has been tested by a series of players, and cannot be reasonably tuned, without the equipment swapping the guys above suggest, I say return it.
When I say reasonably tuned, I mean that across the entire spectrum of the instrument (lets even forget low E and F which tend to be flat on most clarinets) if notes can't remain within far far less than 30 cents from key, I am not happy. Yes, clarinets are inherently imperfect in their intonation, designers make compromises in one note for the sake of another, but good ones are not vastly and consistently out of tune.
(This is not disparaging against Yamaha, just maybe 1 of their clarinets. All manufacturers have their "duds.")
It's not to say that Paul and Karl's suggestions aren't good, but a couple of points come to mind.
First, said accessories, should they solve your problem and you agree to them, should be paid for by the clarinet seller I think; if that comes in the form of further cost reductions, so be it. You have a right to a basically properly function instrument, that can hone in on and maintain reasonable tune, or a considerable reduction in price if it's not. Even then, with price slashing I would be inclinded to return it.
Now--the above would be my sentiments as applied to an instrument with standard length sections.
The proprietary size of these barrels scares me even more.
Second, and this is not a dig against Karl's suggestion, but something strikes me the wrong way about having to use a mouthpiece for A=442 play, just to get A=440 play.
A clarinet with an A=400 mouthpiece should play around A=440, I think. Just for argument sake, what if your daughter is ever called upon to play A=442 in an orchestra? What do you do then? What if the oboe that gives the note to the rest of the band/orchestra plays sharp?
Third, the more the barrel deviates in size from that optimized for the instrument the more that tones that voice out of holes closer to the barrel are affected, as compared to those that voice out of tone holes closer to the floor. This is why when your mega-sharp, pulling the clarinet out not only at the barrel, but between the joints is indicated.
(True, this is less pronounced on clarinets with inherently shorter barrels like a Rossi, or this Yamaha.)
"The music store is suggesting we can get a shorter barrel."
This angers me. Lets assume a group of players have tried the horn and all found it flat.
They're suggest you pay for solutions to their problem horn?
I don't know for a fact is has problems. But, again, if a group of good players all play it flat, with different mouthpieces, etc. it's a lemon. Do not make lemonade out of it (i.e. make the best of the situation) bring it back.
So, when you buy a new car and the air conditioning doesn't work, the dealer says, you should buy yourself a fan. Sorry. I wouldn't even accept their paying for the fan. Again, it's one thing if the problem is endemic to your child. It's quite another thing if a series of skilled players all play flat.
"At this point, I just want to return it."
I'd like to see someone in the store play it on an A=440 mouthpiece and get decent tuning (based on a scale at A=440 of course) across its range, before I would even consider keeping it.
"Our local music store had a great deal on a brand new Yamaha CSG which had been sitting unpurchased since the CSGII came out."
Maybe sitting around before the CSGII came out too, as Karl suggested, if you know what I mean.
I'm surprised at Karl and Paul's posts here. It's not that I think their wrong (I could be wrong) so much as I would have expected them to not keep the instrument. Of course we all work in the dark here.
It would be one thing if you inherited the instrument and we responders were tasked with the job of getting it to play in tune. My approach and response would be entirely different, and more consistent with theirs.
But this is new.
Maybe they will share with us why they went the hardware route. They certainly know their stuff.
Karl, Paul, would you buy a clarinet inherently way out of tune (assuming this is truly the case here) unless (or even if) you got some super deal on it? If the answer is, "it depends," then what does it depend upon for you?
And of course Karl and Paul's knowledge, including resources to address this (clarinet accousticians, barrel makers) may be a hassle you'd rather not go through.
By analogy: Paul and Karl may enjoy the fixer upper house more than you, looking for a turnkey, ready to move it property, because they're better at fixing than you. Their answer may (or may not) have been, maybe not even at the conscience level, more "here's what I'd do," than "Kevin, are YOU willing to do these things."
They may also be able to try a lot more things before purchase than you, given their access to hardware they've collected over the years. Not that ligatures matter here, but Paul, what's the current count....137 ligs?
Here's what I fear is happening, by analogy. You've come to the Chevy car bboard. Mechanically inclined people respond. You speak of this nice little car you found at a great price, but the timing's a little bit off.
A poster with best of intentions says, "get the baby, just slam some B62 rods under the transverse rotator cylinder head pump and she'll purr like a kitten."
And you say, "yeah, but when I bought it new, I not only expected that wouldn't be a problem, but I'm not that good with cars."
So...how good are you with clarinet accoustics problems?
If I asked you, "how are the 12th's," would you know what that means?
Let me not assume. In simple terms, play a note in the low register with the left thumb covering the tone hole, but not on the octave key. Now apply the octave key. These notes are [suppose to be, withing tuning reason] a musical 12th apart. How do they compare on the tuner? If they are out of key, are they consistently (by the same much) out of key?
To me, this is more than getting a reduction in price to buy new hardware to fix this problem.
I say, if the problem is shown to not be solely your daughters, (and you did say the teacher reproduced the problem) take it back, done deal. Use the warranty period for what it is intended for.
My sentiments in a nutshell:
You will not miss the cost savings over the life of the instrument. You WILL miss, over the life of the instrument playing one out of wack if you can't resolve this. Take this money and buy a Ridenour clarinet (great value, very affordable.) Tuning simply won't have to be an issue you have to contend with much, period.
An analogy, maybe a loose one: Would you buy a house (clarinet) with a weak or non level foundation even if I offered you the greatest adjusting strong walls (different mouthpiece/different barrel) with it to compensate?
Some things are only as good as their foundation.
If I was running the store, I would show you that I could play the clarinet in tune, and do so with no special tricks.
Another question, how's the musical temperament, in other words the acoustical spacing between notes?
I.e. when you play scales are they all over the place or the instrument is universally and consistently (or not consistently) flat?
This may be a "project house," that you don't want to take the time, or spend the money on to fix.
Paul and Karl are very knowledgeable, perhaps more than me. I wish them no disrespect. Again, I'm curious to their insight here.
Post Edited (2015-02-22 07:36)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-02-22 07:46
Dave, I don't really disagree with you. I think I'd be inclined to return it, too, unless I could get the instrument to play in tune at the store's expense.
I'll take others' word for it that these are really good clarinets. The expense of getting it to play in tune at the time of purchase shouldn't be the buyer's. I was suggesting possible solutions. But at a couple of points in both of my posts, I questioned whether or not the great price would still be so great if Kevin had to bear the additional cost of fixing the CSG's pitch problem. Since he didn't tell us what he paid for the clarinet, we can't know if it's a steal even with the additional cost of a mouthpiece and/or a barrel or not.
To be clear I wouldn't personally spend the extra money, especially not knowing for certain what exactly is causing the flatness. But, if the store owner is willing to provide a barrel at his expense, and it solves the problem, I might still be in.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-22 09:15
OK, I own a pair of the original CSGs so I do kinda sorta know what I'm talking about.
The barrels were (as stated above) designed specific to a horn with longer top joint (hence the shorter length). This design principle has a greater advantage to tuning because it puts the adjusting length FURTHER from the first notes at the top of the horn and evens out the end result (a bit more). So this is a GOOD THING.
Yamaha had to make a decision on which precise length barrel to send out with the horns and they probably goofed a little. So yes as we have discussed on this forum in the past, it is best to get the shortest version Yamaha makes for it (whether you exchange it for what you have or buy a new one outright is up to you......personally in the Summer, when the temps are higher and I'm using a higher pitch mouthpiece, i like having the longer barrel around).
There are top professionals (David Shifrin being amongst them) who play these horns. They have an exceptionally even scale and are quite unusually well made considering what odd quality cuts you see from Buffet on their R13s these days.
I say keep the horn..........or sell it to me.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kevin_bkt
Date: 2015-02-22 10:20
Well, first off let me say thanks so much to everyone for the prompt and thoughtful responses. I feel better about the instrument knowing that this isn't a lemon per-se, but rather that it's exhibiting a characteristic this model is known for. Many others have bought CSGs and loved them, so perhaps it's worth at least trying to get it into playing condition, assuming the store will shoulder the additional cost.
On the other hand, I also feel better knowing that I'm not crazy for being very uncomfortable with this situation, and that others would seriously consider returning this horn were they in my shoes.
After reading all of these suggestions, my new plan is to see what the store offers to do for me. I would not pay additional money for a shorter barrel or a sharper mouthpiece - if they're willing to foot the cost, I'll give it some serious thought. But even if I went down that road, I would also insist on an additional trial period. Given the issues we're having, I want enough time to give this clarinet a good breaking in, to ensure we've really addressed all of the intonation issues.
This is a seriously beautiful instrument (it's got the Hamilton-plated keys, which my daughter loves) with a wonderfully full pure sound. I would love to own it, as long as there won't be any reasons for regret down the road.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-22 18:50
Kevin
Sounds like a well thought out execution strategy on your part. One note:
Please be careful of what people of my generation might refer to as the "Corinthian Leather" factor:
http://youtu.be/Vsg97bxuJnc?t=22s
(Some explanation: We'd try to sell someone we know on an idea or product NOT made of leather, telling them, in our best version of the late and great Ricardo Montalban's accent, "but it has Corinthian Leather ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) :" a reference to a well known car commerical of the 1970s.
As you must know, shiny keys a good clarinet does not necessarily make. And if making your child happy plays a role here, I am at least as guilty as you of this bias.
========
Paul: I respect that you own and know the brand. That does say a lot, (I don't know Yamahas) but our O.P. isn't buying a brand, just a single clarinet of a brand. That this flatness issue being endemic to the brand is an excellent point.
I play Buffet--yes a brand known for inconsistency that Yamaha may not have as much of. Despite the fact that their top of line instruments of various professional models play beautifully, plenty of duds exist.
I also think Yamaha makes beautiful instruments, and sometimes Buffet doesn't. So I really hope I have limited brand bias, but who knows?
Shifrin:
http://www.yamaha.com/artists/davidshifrin.html may have played this model at once point but appears to play other models today--again, models, not individual clarinet (not that you said otherwise Paul.)
Shifrin's also played Buffet at one point I'm pretty sure, and is probably compensated by Yamaha. This is not a dig at Shifrin or Yamaha. He would not play junk no matter what, nor does Yamaha sell it. But sometimes when an artist is happy with competing brands, the manufacturer "showing the money," becomes the one with the "best instrument," if you know what I mean.
"The barrels were (as stated above) designed specific to a horn with longer top joint (hence the shorter length)."
Yes, just like Rossi. I acknowledged that. But it can make barrel shopping a challenge outside the brand. People who buy Rossi's in large part don't care if they have to shell out $ to custom barrel makers. Grade schoolers and their parents might.
"I say keep the horn..........or sell it to me."
At what cost and under what warranty to you Paul? That is the real question.
"The pads are amazing until they start to wear out (with really heavy use this could be as short as a year). "
This is something a grade schooler player and their parents want to be concerned with?
You and I Paul, we go get a repadding job done while we bring in 3 other student horns at the same time.
"All Valentinos [pads] on this one please," might be a phrase as foreign to the O.P. as "attention K-Mart shoppers," was to Leona Helmsley.
I can walk into Weiner Music like "Norm walks into Cheers." The ordinary parent likely feels differently.
By no means am I accusing you of this, much less I wonder if I do it at times, but we have to be careful to discern "here's what I'd do," from "this is what I think the ordinary person should do," when dispensing advice.
All this said, it is entirely possible matters resolve here EXACTLY as you said, and I respect your thoughts here.
Post Edited (2015-02-22 18:53)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-22 19:48
I am not fond of the term "flatness issue being endemic to the brand." We are talking about one particular model, the CSG. It was rolled out (in my opinion) with the wrong sized barrel. This in no way is a problem with Yamaha as a brand or even this specific model, only an issue that can be ironed out with some attention.
To Kevin_bkt:
I think you may be able to have the dealer exchange the barrel. I wouldn't put any extra demands on the dealer for a longer trial period (I don't think a lot of dealers offer a "trial period" in the first place). You found a good horn. As one that is just slightly "different" from the pack (the barrel length issue) you also have the advantage of not going down the road of sinking money on barrel after barrel depending on what aftermarket guru comes up with next week (believe me this is a PLUS!!!!).
You WILL find your daughter wanting/needing other mouthpieces down the road and overhauls (mainly to cure aging pads) do happen regularly (the time in between depends on the quality of the pads and overhaul which is why I suggested what I did) so that expense is going to happen at some point (one year, five years, ten years down the road).
Good luck however you decide to proceed.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-22 21:15
Contact Yamaha and explain your situation. Surely there is a "factory person" or sales representative that can straighten this mess out and give you the straight facts ... and be sure you have the correct barrel with this instrument for your MP. The fact that it has not been sold seems to indicate that others may have tried and rejected this clarinet as well ...
If you can't get definite answers with Yamaha, I'd return the clarinet, although your problem might very well be just the wrong barrel provided with the clarinet for the MP you are using.
My instruments came with two barrels and I have to use the 62mm with my M13 (440 tuning or maybe even lower) and 65 mm with my M30-lyre (not 13 series, so 442 or higher) to get enough "wiggle room" in the tuning.
Tom
Post Edited (2015-02-22 21:23)
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2015-02-22 22:20
Kevin, contact me off the BB. I have a shorter barrel with hamiliton rings that I never used and I want a replacement long barrel with hamiliton rings as mine is blowing out after extensive playing. Trade? JamesOrlandoGarcia@gmail.com
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-22 23:44
"I am not fond of the term "flatness issue being endemic to the brand."
You are correct Paul, I misspoke. I meant to say endemic to the model (the CSG) : consistent with your own statements of same.
Mea culpa.
No disparagement meant to Yamaha. I single product issue does not a snake oil salesman make. Yamaha does, on the whole, fine work. Sorry Yamaha.
That said, good and kind people find Kevin's daughter a barrel that tunes well.
Now, she advances, and like any good clarinetist she finds the need to own several barrels larger and smaller than the one that came with or fixed the horn, as she makes effort to stay in tune with others (just as she should).
Where are we getting these barrels from...custom barrel makers only, Yamaha, Rossi($)?
Post Edited (2015-02-22 23:47)
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Author: efsf081
Date: 2015-02-23 06:48
I try a CSGII last year. It is amazing. Good tone, quick response, and the best key work. It play flat with my m13 sires 13 mouthpiece, but well tune with CL4. It depend on the mouthpiece you are using.
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Author: kevin_bkt
Date: 2015-02-23 07:36
@James
Should I decide to move forward with this instrument, I'll certainly contact you about the possibility of a barrel trade.
Kevin
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Author: kevin_bkt
Date: 2015-03-04 09:47
Here's an update on this Yamaha Bb clarinet. The store I bought it from had it checked out by their Yamaha artist, and he agreed that the instrument played flat. His suggestion was a shorter barrel. I told the folks at the store that I wasn't going to pay for a new barrel. They told me they'd look into getting one.
Today I got a phone call from them. I was told that Yamaha isn't making custom barrels right now because the facility where they do it is not operating - remodeling or some such thing. However, the senior repair person at the store modified the original barrel so that the clarinet now plays in tune.
This was a shock to me. They made a permanent modification to an instrument I paid for without even asking, and this seems over the line.
My daughter tried the clarinet and it does seem to be playing in tune now. The barrel is now 54.5mm long. But how do I know that what he did didn't alter the tone or change some other aspect of how it plays? Am I wrong in thinking that a custom 54.5mm barrel from Yamaha isn't the same thing as a 56.5mm barrel with 2mm cut off? Is this even a thing that people do??
I'd sure appreciate a sanity check here!
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Author: Kenton153
Date: 2015-03-04 10:30
I've never heard of a barrel being modified.
As for the instrument, I played one of these horns for 2 years. I used a rico reserve XO and it played beautiful. Intonation is one of its greatest attrributes. I cannot possibly imagine that yamaha would make a factory mistake like that.
Here is why i say this: The tolerances that these instruments are made at is truly incredilble. Also, they are play tested right in front of a chromatic tuner before
they even leave the factory. In the factory, they most certainly use a mouthpiece that the instrument is designed to work best with. It would not leave the factory in the condition you described.
You mentioned a "yamaha artist" that camee to play the instrument. Unless some actual proof was showed of that, it very well coulld have been any clarinet player. Even someone in the shop.
There is a good chance that the person who played your clarinet had one of the mouthpieces mentioned above that had intonation differencies with that instrument. Those mouthpieces are VERY common.
I had to buy a barrel that was longer actually, (57.5) i had it made by Clark Fobes, and it plays no differently to my ear OTHER than the fact that it played perfectly in tune. That was all I wanted from it and it was great.
I now play on different instruments, and my CSG is somewhere on the second hand market. Probably Washington Music Center.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-03-04 12:52
kevin_bkt wrote:
> Am I wrong in thinking that a custom
> 54.5mm barrel from Yamaha isn't the same thing as a 56.5mm
> barrel with 2mm cut off? Is this even a thing that people do??
>
They probably would have done exactly the same thing to another barrel to "customize" it, unless they already make a barrel that's 2 mm shorter than the standard one. Repair people shorten barrels all the time. It isn't hard for a skilled tech. If the barrel has a taper (usually larger at the top), they hopefully did any re-reaming necessary to restore the correct taper, but I'm not sure Yamaha clarinets use a tapered barrel. A straight cylindrical bore wouldn't need to be adjusted after the barrel was shortened.
Karl
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2015-03-04 13:15
kevin_bkt wrote:
> Am I wrong in thinking that a custom
> 54.5mm barrel from Yamaha isn't the same thing as a 56.5mm
> barrel with 2mm cut off? Is this even a thing that people do??
>
I wouldn't bother too much. Shortening barrels is quite common and at least you now have a playable instrument.
There are always some (minor) differences in sound and intonation between different barrels, even with identical length, even from Yamaha.
So, enjoy this very fine clarinet!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-03-04 14:13
I am only a little surprised to hear them say that Yamaha no longer has a shorter barrel (this was a standard available piece of equipment), however as has been already said, shortening a barrel is pretty standard for a repair facility with a lathe.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-03-04 16:17
Is there a possibility that this over-long barrel is not the one that was originally part of the instrument? If it had been opened in the store there is always the possibility of a barrel mix-up. I've even seen a new R13 that came from the store with mismatched upper and lower joints. The purchaser returned it, although with some regret because it played and tuned superbly.
Tony F.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-03-04 16:42
I think we covered this territory. The "stock" barrel was determined before mass market and was quite possibly too long for standard usage (the 56.5mm).
At any rate Yamaha was not being smart. Many companies (to include Uebel, the latest entrant of the US market) include TWO barrels of different lengths to avoid this confusion in the first place. Buffet does not because EVERYONE already knows their barrel length preferences with Buffet (and Buffet really likes selling extra barrels).
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2015-03-04 16:49
Bring it back to the store. If they can't make the tuning acceptable, return it. There is always another deal around the corner. It is the stores job to make it play in tune (for a player that can play in tune).
Steve Ocone
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Author: richard smith
Date: 2015-03-04 21:04
Always try before buy. Most new clarinets are average, nothing more. regardless of price, publicity, advertising, etc.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-03-04 22:26
I'm not sure what "most new clarinets are average" even means. There are poorly designed horns, poorly constructed horns, inexpensive horns that are just not even worth considering. None of these are issues with the Yamaha brand, whatever model or price point you are buying. Yamaha is one of the GOOD brands that offers a reliable, well made product. You may prefer another well made brand over this one, but we are NOT speaking of quality control issues.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: kevin_bkt
Date: 2015-03-04 23:51
Okay, thanks for all the input. I feel better now knowing that the barrel shortening isn't an extreme or unusual step, and that it probably hasn't compromised the instrument. We're going to try it out for a few days before we make a final decision whether to keep it or not.
At this point, we've got the CSG and a new R13 we're going to trial side-by-side for several days before making a final decision. Both instruments sound beautiful and (now) have good intonation. My daughter seems to prefer the action on the CSG as it has a very light touch, whereas the R13 is noticeably stiffer. I'm not sure how big a factor that should be in the decision, though. I'm wondering if she wouldn't get used to the stiffer action of the R13 after an adjustment period. Anyone willing to share an opinon on this?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-03-05 00:07
New Buffet R13s come with the springs set stiff. I like my action to be as light as possible, and I've always had a repair shop set it that way. It's not difficult to do, though some of the pads held closed by springs need to have the pad seating tweaked to work at a lighter pressure.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-03-05 01:10
kevin_bkt wrote:
> My daughter seems to prefer the action on the CSG
> as it has a very light touch, whereas the R13 is noticeably
> stiffer. I'm not sure how big a factor that should be in the
> decision, though. I'm wondering if she wouldn't get used to
> the stiffer action of the R13 after an adjustment period.
> Anyone willing to share an opinon on this?
Adjusting the spring tensions is part of a good tech's stock-in-trade. But it depends on where you got the R-13 whether you'll spend still more cash having it adjusted.
Karl
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Author: kevin_bkt
Date: 2015-03-05 02:32
All great feedback. Thanks very much! Sounds like we can focus on the sound of each instrument now that worries about intonation and mechanics have been addressed. I really appreciate all of the advice and information I've gotten here. You're all very generous with your help. 
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The Clarinet Pages
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