 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: AClarinet
Date: 2015-01-29 19:29
My teacher and dad said that my sound was a little bit too dark with no ring. I am playing a Kanter mouthpiece which I love with 3.5+ V12 and a Versa ligature.
But they said that only when I was playing in the A clarinet because I have played Mozart's Quintet and I'm playing Nielsen's concerto.
I tried many reeds and I settled in Vandoren blue box and some D'addario Reserve or Rico Evolution but the main difference was when I tried a broken bonade that I have.
The sound was a little bit smaller in comparation but with resonance, very focused on the soft and loud dinamics and with more high harmonics which I really enjoyed.
So what do you think ? Should I buy a Bonade or try some different metal ligatures ?
Thank you
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-29 19:51
The harmonics that you don't really enjoy will be a positive boon for you when sitting in an orchestra. Without them you will be working harder to be heard, with them your colleagues will say, "wow, what are you doing to get your sound?," while you work less.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: AClarinet
Date: 2015-01-29 20:01
Are you talking abouth the high harmonics ? Like the focus on the tone ?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-01-29 20:29
Some of that ring is controlled by the way you shape the inside of your mouth. Lots of clarinetists have written tons of material on the general topic of tone production. Consistent among most of the suggestions is that the mouth tissues should not be pulled rigid and that the throat or back of the mouth area should be relaxed. Often when try to "make" an open throat, you actually end up closing something farther back where you don't have conscious control. Also commonly recommended is to avoid pulling your tongue downward (often a part of "forming an open throat") to provide more space. The result can be rigidity and an inhibition of resonance. Forming different vowel sounds with your tongue and oral muscles will give different results. You can pick from a fairly varied spectrum of sounds in this way as long as you don't cause tissues to become stiff and inflexible.
As always, the equipment can make it easier to get the sound you want, but the sound itself is largely formed before the air reaches the reed.
Karl
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Author: Wisco99
Date: 2015-01-29 20:55
Clarinet teacher are like economists, everyone has a different opinion. The terms "dark or ring" means something different to each person. You are going to sound different in every room you play in, so the room you may have your lesson in affects your sound. I have had many great teachers on clarinet, flute, and sax over my lifetime, but each one has their own idea of what is correct. Listen to musicians you truly admire to get their sound in your head, and realize that nobody else in the world can sound like you. Go for a sound you like and perhaps is close to musicians you admire. Just because someone calls themselves a teacher does not mean they have all the answers. I enjoy the sound of Larry Combs, but I enjoy it because I hear the overtones, and it is not what I would call a dark sound. It is a beautiful sound. Go for that. Be your own person, record yourself if possible, and you be the judge. Use your instinct and trust it. Oh yeah, you need to practice correctly a lot. Best of luck to you.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-01-29 21:47
AClarinet:
When you report that you experienced a particular effect, good or bad, using a ligature that is broken, particularly when in a specific state of disrepair whose particulars are not known to me, I'm hesitant, in the interest of accurate reporting, to arrive at any conclusions.
That said, before I share what findings I have , let me explore my preferences and biases.
I play a Bondade inverted ligature. I am the first person to question the effects and benefits that one competant ligature has over another, but am open to the idea that other players report drastic differences among ligatures.
That said, there is one area in which I do believe ligatures make a difference, metal ones at that, and it is with projection, or perhaps more to point, being heard by an audience.
Though I have never tried it, I would like to point out one possible exception, and that's the Silverstein ligature. Several people on the board whose opinions I respect, talk of the Silverstein, which most would consider to be in the family of string based ligatures, to otherwise play like a metal one: good, bad or indifferent. This may have something to due with the special cord used, which is highly resistant (by design) to stretch when expansion force is applied to it (i.e. tightening the ligature.)
We have debated on the board what it is, aside from sheer decibels, that gets a clarinetist to be heard even in the "cheap seats," in the back of auditorium/theater. Some in the know have suggested that we are attracted as people by the harmonics that accompany a base tone. Harmonics after all are what make the same note on the piano sound different when a clarinetist plays it, than, say, a flutist. Perhaps metal ligatures help with the creation of such harmonics, which by the way is to in no way shape or form discount other ligature types, or the myriad of other factors, both setup and human related that give us our sound.
"But they said that only when I was playing in the A clarinet because I have played Mozart's Quintet and I'm playing Nielsen's concerto."
AClarinet: I think you are saying here that the relevant factor to why you may have sounded darker to your teacher and dad is attributable to the "A" clarinet, not the 2 particular musical pieces you site. You can let me know if I got that wrong. I do admit confusion as your subject title refers to the name of a composer you reference, as well as a ligature.
I tend to play darker on my "A" as well--as compared to my "Bb."
But as alluded to by prior posters, dark and bright are relative and subjective terms, even if we could possibly agree on which was more desired, which we don't.
What do YOU think? What do you want? And do you want a brighter sound, or is the real means to your end one where you desire to be heard better?
Final 2 points. First: In some recent posts, people have expressed concern over the quality of some of the Bonade ligatures they've purchased new.
Second: my best advice. Find a clarinetist whose sound you like. Try making adjustments to sound more like them. Try double lip embouchure to see, if nothing else, what it does to your sound.
You'll pardon the Wizard of Oz reference, but the sound you want, not different from the Tin Man's heart, is something that may lie mostly within you, that you just need to learn how to tap by experiment with embouchure, breath, etc.
Post Edited (2015-01-29 21:49)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-30 00:07
Dear Whiteplainsdave,
I don't mean to be a noodge (no, really - I only want to be accurate), but we have talked about the Silverstein before. It behaves just like a metal ligature NOT a string ligature. I would NEVER put it in the string category for sound or how it behaves (it does NOT stretch) and I don't think you would either if you ever used one.
That said, it IS a very good ligature, however I do not want to sound as though I endorse it or criticize it. And I would also (since this is THANKFULLY not a "do ligatures really make a difference" thread) not want to get into any debate over whether a simple ligature change will make a marked difference in the presentation of harmonics from the perspective of the listener.
Once the poster IS successful at this difference he WILL be faced with a very sobering choice, what sound is more useful vs. personally more satisfying (very often a stark contrast in choices) and whether he can make the more useful ALSO personally satisfying.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2015-01-30 08:33
I love the regular Bonade- the regular models have far less problems "off the shelf" than inverted, partially due to the design. I prefer nickel over silver. If you liked your inverted ligature and would want to try a new one, that's what I would do. Otherwise, get something and stick with it. THE END.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-02-01 06:37
Paul said:
"I don't mean to be a noodge (no, really - I only want to be accurate), but we have talked about the Silverstein before. It behaves just like a metal ligature NOT a string ligature. I would NEVER put it in the string category for sound or how it behaves (it does NOT stretch) and I don't think you would either if you ever used one."
Dave said:
"Several people on the board whose opinions I respect, talk of the Silverstein, which most would consider to be in the family of string based ligatures, to otherwise play like a metal one: good, bad or indifferent."
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If accuracy in reporting is your concern, and you get my full support if it is, I think no reasonable person left my thread thinking the Silverstein was anything more than a string ligature by visual classification, as it does use cord, but in the family of metal ligatures in terms of play, in large part due to the resistant to expansion (just like metal) cord I originally sited, and you repeated (not clarified).
I simply and humbly don't understand what you think I left out, that you thought worthy of inclusion or clarrification on this piece of hardware as it related to the subject at hand. Restated, I'm at a loss to find what about your writing that wasn't a rehash of mine, except maybe my failure to classify the ligature enough to your liking by how people think it plays.
Maybe you feel strongly about categorizing a ligature by how it plays, over how it looks. I can respect that. Its a feeling (and feelings can differ) deserving of inclusion in the product's attributes, and was, as sure as is the fact (not feeling) that its undeniably composed of cord/string, and can reasonably and concurrently also be labelled under that attribute as well, even if everyone could agree on its metal ligature like playability.
Post Edited (2015-02-01 06:40)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2015-02-04 01:34
When I first saw this thread I got an immediate mental image of Carl Nielsen and Daniel Bonade lying on their backs 
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-02-04 06:36
The Silverstein Ligature:
The high-tech cable (more accurate a description than cord) does not flex at all and also is not in the least absorbent as advertised by the manufacturer.
It should be placed in its own category (also probably the intent of the manufacturer).
Most clarinet players who seek out a string ligature are looking for a certain sound and response that this ligature does not provide. For those attributes one would want to simply use cord and learn to tie it properly or get one of the ligatures actually made of cord such as the Vandoren Klassik or the Vientos Bambu from Argentina. I just want prospective purchasers to know that the Silverstein is a wonderful ligature......... it is just NOT string.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: tylerleecutts
Date: 2015-02-04 07:50
It's only classified as a string ligature out of convenience. Let's not make a big deal out of an overpriced ligature.
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