 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Joe M.
Date: 2015-01-18 08:22
Attachment: 20150118_145833.jpg (1497k)
As I posted in another thread I have found the bottom sliver key on my Selmer Recital to be too close to the bottom tone hole ring. I am a beginner and I find it very difficult to play the instrument with this configuration. I am including a picture of the tone hole and key and hope it uploads successfully.
My main instrument, an R13 which is being serviced at the moment, has not caused me this problem. Would anyone be able to answer the following:
1. Is this a normal configuration for this model or do I have a badly setup clarinet?
2. If it is normal, does it cause a problem for anyone else and if so, how did you overcome it? Is there some trick to fingering the lower holes without hitting this key etc. ?
3. As suggested by a sales person, can I get the key bent slightly to open up the gap? Is this a normal procedure or am I out on a limb if I get it done?
Finally, and just out of interest and to prepare me for my future with this instrument, how often is this sliver key used in real life? I know that it's used for alternate B3 fingering and for some altissimo notes, probably to allow you to go faster, but is it used often, regularly or rarely?
PS: This Saturday I looked at all the Bb clarinets on display at the sax and woodwind shop, including almost the whole Buffet range, lots of Yamahas, two Selmers (not Recitals) and two Bakuns and the clearance on all of them was much larger than on my instrument. What gives?
Post Edited (2015-01-18 08:32)
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2015-01-18 08:54
I use that key very often. If you have a good tech, adjusting ( bending ) the key should be easy. I've done it myself with no personal experience.
AAAClarinet
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-01-18 09:10
The position of the key is probably within normal manufacturing tolerance, but that doesn't mean that it's right for you. Bending the keys to fit your hands is a quite normal part of setting up a clarinet for yourself. A tech could do this for you in a few seconds. That sliver key is used frequently, so if it annoys you then get it done. I don't suggest you do this yourself, as without the right tools you could easily mar the surface. The tech will have the necessary tools to do it without the risk of damage.
Tony F.
Post Edited (2015-01-18 09:10)
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Author: Joe M.
Date: 2015-01-18 09:28
Tony F, I have no intention whatsoever of doing it myself. As I said in another post I won't do brain surgery or clarinet repairs. But the fact that it CAN be done is a great relief for me. Thanks.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-01-18 19:08
I'm assuming your keys are plated, which in this instance is too bad. Time was that players routinely had those sliver keys (both top and bottom sections) filed thinner to help keep them out of the way and avoid opening them by unwanted contact. The key in your photo looks very thick. But if you had it ground thinner, you'd have to put up with the cosmetic consequences of grinding the plating off or have it re-plated after thinning it. Still, it might be worthwhile to ask your repair person about it. The key looks very fat to me.
Sometimes a player will solve a similar problem with the upper sliver key by simply pushing a piece of cork under it thick enough to keep it from opening. The only fingering you lose is the LH chromatic Eb/Bb, which many players almost never use anyway. That's not a good option for the lower sliver key, because you do use it often.
Karl
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2015-01-18 19:17
Moving it is easy and easily reversible. It IS very close to the third ring.
Also, You can see if the cork (or other material) on the other side is thin as possible and if the key can be bent closer to the body. This note often suffers from stuffiness so the amount you can lower the touch piece may be limited.
For at least one older customer I made the touch piece curved so that it wouldn't get too close to either ring.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Joe M.
Date: 2015-01-18 21:18
Thanks kdk and Steven Ocone. Based on what all of you guys are telling me I am thinking of the following strategy:
1. Get the key bent by my repairer. I would not have a clarinet for a few days, sigh, but it may just make everything good. I hope it won't go from interfering with the third hole to interfering with the second. They are really close together.
2. If this does not work have the lever filed thinner. If it can be plated at a reasonable cost, do so. If not, too bad for cosmetics. I might order a new key assembly from Selmer to allow me to restore the clarinet to original if needed.
3. For the moment, just put a piece of cork underneath so I can get on with practicing. I won't be using this key for a while anyway as I am just starting scales. I'm not too happy with this option but it will buy me time.
In any case I cannot play this instrument as it is, no matter how hard I try, so one of the above needs to be done.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-01-18 21:47
Make an appointment to see your repairer at a specific time as this is a very simple job that can be done there and then with you present. There's no point in booking the instrument in if it's going to be away for a while on such an easy job, so find out when they have a spare half hour to do this for you.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Joe M.
Date: 2015-01-18 22:39
Thanks for the tip. I guessed that it wasn't a major repair. I will try to sneak in this morning (Monday) before he starts his busy week.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-01-18 23:48
There's no real reason to have to leave the clarinet for this kind of little adjustment, so you shouldn't be without the clarinet. Bending the key takes a few seconds. Filing it down is a little more work, but still should be do-able while you wait. Call the shop and ask when the repairer can do the work for you.
Karl
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Author: Joe M.
Date: 2015-01-19 02:33
Thanks Karl. As soon as I got up I read this thread again including your note and rang my repairer.
I am just getting ready to go over there now. An hour's travel. He will bend the stem while I wait. He said that he never had to do any more than that to fix these kinds of problems.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-01-19 02:55
Try it out while you're there to be sure you're not catching it with either finger once it's done.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Joe M.
Date: 2015-01-19 09:13
Done!!! The repair took about 30 seconds. John, my instrument maker, just gripped the stem with a special pair of padded pliers and bent it a mm or less. The clearance is now sufficient to just miss both rings. I ran a few things through the clarinet for about half an hour without a hitch.
To make doubly sure he also glued a cork stopper under the sliver key to jam it closed. We will remove it at the next service or earlier if I feel confident. It's probably not needed, but right now I just want to get on with practicing without any more dramas.
We checked the top sliver key as well but I don't seem to have any problem with that.
As for you guys: you are the greatest. I love you all! Thank you for taking such an interest in my miniscule greenhorn problem and helping me to solve it. That goes for everyone in both threads I posted.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-01-19 18:31
I either remove or plug up the tonehole on the LH Eb/Bb sliver key on my clarinets as I never use that fingering for Eb/Bb as I have at least three other ways of getting those notes far easier.
On my Eb, C, Bb and A clarinets I keep the key on place but plugged up the tonehole with a cork pad so it doesn't matter if I catch the key accidentally, but the touchpice is only serving the purpose of keeping the ring key linkage from clattering against the joint surface when the top joint is separated.
On my basset horn and bass I've removed the key completely and plugged up the toneholes and pillar holes as well as kept the keys and pillars in a bag in the case compartment so they can be reinstated later on should I decide to sell them.
But I use the LH sliver key a lot - not just for chromatic passages, but for a clearer B/F# as opposed to the usual fingering (xxx|oxo) especially on bass where the F# is much cleaner with this fingering even though it's not always practical to use it, but isolated F#s speak easier than the regular fingering which has more resistance and tends to kick on my bass.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Joe M.
Date: 2015-01-19 23:37
Sorry for the slow response Chris. I went out last night with my better half to celebrate.
This is why I won't permanently remove or disable this key. I am only on a Bb for the foreseeable future (at my age, maybe for ever) and I haven't noticed any difference in tone between the two fingerings on either of my clarinets. But I figured that I might need it for fast chromatics later.
If I do some European folk, klezmer or romany, as I intend to in the near future, every key will be needed. They use all keys and every trick in the book to do the laughs, coughs, barks, sighs, sobs etc. etc. which makes those styles so distinctive and interesting. (Classical musicians reading this, please forgive us for we do not know what we doeth.)
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Author: Joe M.
Date: 2015-01-19 23:49
By the way, AAAClarinet et al. you were correct. It seemed like a very simple fix when my repairer did it. But bending a still mounted key against a post on a $6000 clarinet takes more courage than I have. If I tried it and split or damaged the wood or the post I wouldn't have been celebrating last night, let me tell you.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-01-20 02:46
Better safe than sorry if you've never done anything like that before. Once you get the feel for bending keys, then it's second nature. But not something a novice should do if you're not sure of how much or little force to use and in the right places.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Joe M.
Date: 2015-01-20 09:45
That's right Chris, safety first and I hope that other newbies take note.
One of the things I hope for is that beginners who run into similar problems will be able to solve them quickly using the info in these two threads.
Back to my Lazarus... (Page 1)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-01-20 17:51
People with wide fingers can have trouble with the right ring finger sliver key. Not only can you hit it accidentally, but if you lay your finger across the body of the clarinet while using it, the note is flat because the edges of your finger shade the adjacent holes.
I've seen the key filed down to almost a wire. Tom Ridenour has cut it to a stub. You do what works.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Joe M.
Date: 2015-01-20 18:21
I am from good peasant stock Ken and we all have pudgy fingers.
I practiced a lot today and the small bend has worked like a charm. Both my middle and ring fingers clear the sliver. But geez, I wish Selmer didn't have to squeeze those two bottom holes so close together.
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