 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ashna99
Date: 2015-01-15 03:58
This is my first time posting on here, but I had things I needed help with. So I am going to play movement 4 of the Saint-Saëns Sonata for a major audition and I had a couple of questions.
1) I have to play one other movement with it. My teacher doesn't want me to play movement 2 with it because another kid is already doing 2 and 4 and he wants us to do different movements. If I do movements 1 and 4, will it come off as too repetitive as the movement 1 theme is the ending of movement 4, or will it come off as musical, because it comes back to how it started?
2) A couple of note questions- in measure 43 (the measure starting on the Bb in the second chromatic sequence), does the Ab carry through, or is the second A an A natural? Based on my music theory, I'd say it carries through, but it doesn't sound like that on recordings, so is it a misprint, or am I missing something? And the seventh measure after the second rehearsal mark (the square 2), in the second to last measure of the triplet sequence (before the measure with the triplet+sixteenth notes), that's an A natural right? Because in some recordings I've heard people have played it as an Ab.... Just making sure I'm not missing something.
3) Any tips for the jump up to the high G and F? My tone always spreads when I try it, even though when I warm up, I can reach those notes with no problem- I think it's the fact that it's a jump that I can't get it... Any tips/fingering suggestions for going up to the high A? I've played high F and G a lot, but never the A, and I can't get it to come out, but I really need to nail it for my audition, and I don't want to come off as amateur with bad high notes. Are there any good exercises other than long tones to help with my altissimo register?
4) Lastly, what are some ways to practice this so I can nail it for my audition? I want to be able to play it perfectly clean and really fast, so what are some ways I can build up to that speed? Are there any tips or things I should watch for when practicing for my audition?
Thanks a lot!
Post Edited (2015-01-15 04:35)
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2015-01-15 06:20
1) if it was me, I would choose movements 1 and 4, you get very clear ways to showcase both lyrical and technical playing.
2) you're edition might have a misprint. I can't remember off the top of my head
3) for the high A, finger it the same as altissimo E. Practice the overtone series and you should be able to pop it out with some practice. Also make sure you're using a strong enough reed. Although if you can consistently get Fs and Gs then your reed is probably fine
4)practice slow!!!! And slower than you think you need to practice it. Then do it in rhythms (short-long and then long-short). Bonade's anticipated finger method might also be good.
Hope this helps
NB
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Author: ashna99
Date: 2015-01-15 06:23
Thank you- what are good tempos to go for movements 1 and 4? And for the thing about reed strength- I am currently playing on Vandoren V12's with a strength of 3.5. If I am going to be going up to the A, should I go buy a box of 3.5+ or 4, or is 3.5 fine for that?
Post Edited (2015-01-15 06:25)
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-01-15 10:51
The altissimo is also more about having a well-balanced reed than a hard enough reed.
To get the leaps where you want them, start with smaller intervals and then expand. For instance F to G, rather than Bb to G. Get that smooth and consistent and then move to E to G, then D to G, etc. until you reach the Bb. Consistent practice of this kind of exercise leads to consistent results.
Best wishes!
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-01-15 18:17
Try adding the RH C-sharp key for the high A natural ...
And ditto, make sure your reed is well balanced ... reed doesn't have to be extra stiff and you don't have to bite to play the entire normal range of the clarinet. A 3.5 V12 on a good MP will do the job, if everything else is OK ...
Tom
Post Edited (2015-01-15 18:31)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-01-15 21:17
(1) It isn't repetitive until you reach the coda of the fourth movement. The rest of IV contrasts enough with I that you can show lots of variety in your approach.
(2) There are a great many places in the Sonata where Saint-Saens repeats chromatics for each separate octave, so, I think in general for this composer in this piece accidentals only apply in the octave where they appear. So even though there is an Ab4 marked at the end of beat 1, the A3 on beat 4 would be natural - especially since the next note is G# (enharmonically the same pitch as Ab).
You'd have to point me to the recordings where the clarinetist plays Ab here - there's no reason to think it's anything but A (concert G) natural. There's no flat sign on it in the clarinet part and the piano is playing a whole note Eb Major (G natural) triad through the measure.
(3) How are you approaching the high A? you can go through G with LH thumb and register key (squeaking F4/C6) and then land on the fingering you use for high E6. Using the RH C# key instead of the Eb key will make it pop out a little more easily.
The jump to G can be done - depending on your clarinet's intonation - by keeping LH register key, thumb and 1st finger (the fingering for B) and just adding RH 1st and 2nd fingers and the RH pinky on the Eb key. Response shouldn't be an issue with this fingering, but if pitch is then you may have to play with it a little.
The jump to F can be done with the "closed" F fingering - all of your fingers including the LH pinky on the C#/G# key, but no RH pinky at all. It will speak very easily and should tune well.
(4) I don't know what you mean by "really fast." It does say Molto allegro, but the meter is still 4, not 2 and it doesn't say Molto vivace or Prestissimo. Be careful that "really fast" doesn't become unmusical. I've heard many auditioning students ruin the music and their scores by trying to play things at hyper-warp that shouldn't have been that way. When they got a little nervous and started to rush at the audition, they were out of control. Better to pick a controllable tempo and then see if you want to speed it up after you've learned it.
Karl
Post Edited (2015-01-15 22:23)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-01-16 00:05
Many years ago when I was practicing this piece I checked out 3 recordings I had available for tempo, fortunately pencilled these inside the cover page and still there.
---------- Kell ........... Gabai .......... dePeyer
Mov 1. .... 69 - 80 ....... 76 - 80 ......... 84 - 88
Mov 4. .... 156 - 132 ..... 152 - 144 ....... 160 - 152
the young dePeyer was certainly a tear-away in those days.
hope this helps
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2015-01-16 01:08
It's been said, but it's important: do not play the 4th movement too fast. It's better to notch it down and get the notes (and EVENNESS) before going at warp speed. Evenness and musicality in a technical movement will help you stand out from everybody else.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2015-01-16 19:42
Yes, it's an A natural going to the G#. A change in one register does not usually mean it stays changed in another. Not all composers get that right though.
I agree, Mov't 1 and 4 would be a better contrast but 2 and 4 is good too. My tempo recommendations, Mov't 1 80-88 doted quarter, mov't 2 - 108, 112 or 116 to the half note, mov't 4 - 144 to the quarter if you can play it even and smooth, otherwise take it down a notch.
High G, try opened, closed, closed in the LH and closed, closed, opened in the RH with the Ab-Eb pinky. High F, unless it's too out of tune you can try all holes closed in both hands with the C#-G# side key opened in the LH. No pinky in the RH.
High A, Depends of how you approach it from the G. I'd suggest using either the same G I mentioned above or opened, closed, opened in the LH, closed, closed, opened with pinky in the RH and playing the A overblowing the high E fingering using good air support and a firm embouchure. It's important that the air support remains strong so you don't get the E instead. Even if you have to "pinch" just a little. PS, I have a good fingering chart on my website.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: ashna99
Date: 2015-01-17 04:09
Thanks everyone Just to clarify- my question about how to play it fast was on how to get it good am starting slow and building up- I've got it nice and clean at 100 at the moment, and am working on getting it clean at 112 and I eventually want to play it closer to 152 ish (if I can get it clean enough). So how what are some tips for playing it evenly as I speed up the tempo?
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-01-17 04:37
I'd suggest not speeding up so quickly. 100 to 112 is too big a jump if you are aiming for excellence. Be clean at 104, and then 108 first.
Also if you are having trouble playing a passage of notes evenly, practice it deliberately unevenly a variety of ways, long-short-long-short and short-long-short-long being the two basic ones for a group of four notes. Other basic variations: 2 long-2 short, 2 short-2 long, 1 short-2 long-1 short, etc. Be creative and have fun!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2015-01-17 22:51
Play the difficult passage perfect at the tempo you can play it. The next day start from that tempo, play it once perfect, then move it up a few mm points and play it as many times as you need to to get it perfect. Keep doing the same thing every day, starting from yesterdays tempo. You might reach a point that you need to play 4-6 times at a "new" tempo for several days instead of one day before moving on. The faster you move the tempo the longer it will take to get to the next tempo. Also, since finger memorization is important, they to memorize the most difficult passages so you can play them with your eyes closed. This approach can take a week, two weeks a month or with some people playing very difficult music, several months. Good clean repetition over a period of time is the secret to success. But you should not practice blindly, be conscious of what you're doing at all times and keep your fingers close to the keys.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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