 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-01-14 06:47
People always say it's not the instrument that makes a player great and I believe them. However I'd like to see it, like a professional using a super basic clarinet and mouthpiece and playing a really difficult solo beautifully. Any videos like that?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-01-14 07:39
Apocryphal stories ("He would pick up a kid's Bundy and play just as nice as on his own Selmer Centered Tone...") but nothing concrete I've seen.
To be completely fair you'd have to just grab a random clarinet from the middle of a (nice) high school band- of unknown maintenance condition, sanitize it, maybe let the pro use their own reed- give them 5 minutes to warm up, and then- on stage for the Clarinet Concerto with a big critical audience. I'm assuming this is an artist who is ready for that performance with his/her own equipment on a moment's notice.
I actually think that if you let them use their own mouthpiece, this is probably doable. Performer wouldn't like it, but to the noncritical ear it might sound normal.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2015-01-14 07:41)
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-01-14 08:12
I feel like if you let them use their own instrument it would be to easy, but I do agree with the allowance of warm up time. In my experience it's the mouthpiece that makes up most of the sound quality (equipment wise). I just really want to see someone who says " A good musician can make any reed sound good" put up or shut up.
Post Edited (2015-01-14 08:17)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-01-14 12:03
locke9342 wrote:
> I just really want to see
> someone who says " A good musician can make any reed sound
> good" put up or shut up.
>
That's an extreme version of the position a lot of us take toward equipment and I think overstates the case. What *is* often said and is IMO true is that a skilled player will sound like himself no matter what equipment he's playing. This doesn't mean the quality of the playing will be the same, only that the character will be consistent for a specific player.
The whole point is that using Ricardo Morales's equipment will not make you sound like Morales and giving Morales an entry level clarinet with its stock mouthpiece will not leave unrecognizable the character of his tone, articulation or musical style.
No one plays as well on "crappy" equipment as he does on his first choice of setup. If anyone were to do this as a challenge, it would be to show that a good player can make plausible music on any equipment - not necessarily great music or his best performance.
Karl
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-01-14 12:57
>> it's not the instrument that makes a player great <<
>> a professional using a super basic clarinet and mouthpiece and playing a really difficult solo beautifully <<
These are not the same thing at all. The former quote is true and the latter is a random example that can be true sometimes. The better evidence is the exact opposite, a lousy player with a very good clarinet...
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2015-01-14 14:59
An ideal situation would be to ask a top notch Clarinetist to use a student Clarinet , say a Jupiter JCL-631-II and using it's plastic mouthpiece / barrel & ligature and play , for example , Mozart's Clarinet Concerto. I think the quality of the result would be surprising. He/She would be allowed to choose a suitable reed and the student Clarinet would have to be in good condition.
However , the Jupiter JCL-631-II is not a crappy Clarinet.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2015-01-14 15:00)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-01-14 16:27
"People always say it's not the instrument that makes a player great and I believe them. However I'd like to see it, like a professional using a super basic clarinet and mouthpiece and playing a really difficult solo beautifully. "
(In poker parlance)
I see your basic clarinet and mouthpiece challenge and "raise you" a chamber music gig featuring period instruments.
Though I have no video, many years ago a teacher of mine accepted a gig where he was given the "instrument" [to borrow]: a historic clarinet with few levers, an ancient mouthpiece, and hand made reeds to learn on.
He said it was the hardest gig he ever played. Sources at the event say that all players made the job look easy.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-01-14 17:09
A cellist friend took lessons from Zara Nelsova, who said that every cellist should play a "cigar box" instrument for several years to learn to draw a great sound from it.
When tuba students complained to Arnold Jacobs about their inferior instruments and mouthpieces, Jacobs would show that he could play them just as well as on his custom made tuba and mouthpiece. He said that it was important not to change anything, but to show how much could be gotten from "inferior" equipment.
It's absolutely possible to sound great on a Bundy. A top-line setup won't make anything better -- just easier.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2015-01-14 19:47)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-01-14 17:15
I found my plastic Yamaha YCL-24 is generally a great instrument, but it has its limits as it can't be pushed anywhere near as far as a Selmer CT or Series 9 without the tone going all brash.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-01-14 17:42
In another age, long, long ago - say the 1950s-1980s - before we got as squeamish as we tend now to be about playing others' reeds and mouthpieces, many teachers routinely demonstrated during lessons using the students' instruments. It was easier to grab the student's clarinet, which was already warm and had an already wet reed, but aside from the convenience it was also a way to show the student that the difference between his playing and the teacher's wasn't the instrument.
It was, BTW, also the most effective way of finding out if part of the problem was a "crappy" reed or a mechanical malfunction, which can sabotage even a good player.
Karl
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2015-01-14 21:13
WhitePlainsDave wrote:
> ...
> I see your basic clarinet and mouthpiece challenge and "raise
> you" a chamber music gig featuring period instruments.
> ...
Yes, a period instrument is more of a challenge than a cheap modern instrument yet there are a good few who manage it wonderfully.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2015-01-14 22:12
Professional pianists usually have no choice but to use whatever one instrument is there for each engagement. Sviatoslav Richter, on being asked one time why he didn't want to try out the provided piano before the concert, replied, "I'm always disappointed." Yet pianists, as others said above about clarinetists, retain their basic sound and style, pretty much regardless of the instrument.
There are exceptions. Claudio Arrau would not attempt the Waldstein sonata on a piano with a stiff action, due to the requisite octave glissando.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2015-01-14 22:55
In my days of presenting concerts of piano music at various churches, I hauled around a van load of MIDI modules, amps, mixers, and a Yamaha KX88 weighted action keyboard controller with stand and drummer's throne. Sadly I did not have the requisite roadies to set up and tear down for me, nor groupies.
Only rarely did I use a church's own piano instead of mine. Usually I'd sneak quietly over to it during setup and finger a few notes. That would be enough- I'd say nothing and just continue setting up my KX. And I could usually predict what theirs would sound like based on its appearance. But there were surprises both ways.
Imagine if clarinetists always had to play on the "provided clarinet".
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: gkern
Date: 2015-01-16 23:04
Kenny Davern played a Conn 16 (circa 1960 plastic student clarinet), usually using a Vandoren 5JB mouthpiece, which he helped design, although obviously had a different one in the video. Altissimo? - no problem, I think this is a double high D at the end, Kenny loved to play in this register. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXg_px3gqqk
Gary K
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2015-01-17 00:10
I call horsecrap to the notion of any instrument can sound just as good as a great one depending on who is playing it.
That's is absurd. Of course a great player will make the thing sound good, as good as it possibly can, but there are limitations......Concept might be 95%, but that other 5% matters.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: gkern
Date: 2015-01-17 01:27
David, I don't want to be argumentative, as I sincerely respect you from reading your posts, but the original post was -
"However I'd like to see it, like a professional using a super basic clarinet and mouthpiece and playing a really difficult solo beautifully. Any videos like that?"
I think Kenny Davern is the epitome of that. Granted, not the original mouthpiece, but...
And, I have a Conn 16 (among too many others), and sound nothing like Kenny when I play it! Not that much better on my Selmer CT either.
Gary K
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-01-17 05:35
DavidBlumberg wrote:
>
> Bird played on a hooptie also.....
>
Who is Bird and what is a hooptie?
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Author: PaulIsaac
Date: 2015-01-17 07:21
Bird is the late great Charlie Parker and my understanding is that a hooptie is an "old piece of junk".
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-01-17 09:34
Several decent and even excellent clarinets out there for under a grand. Probably a couple that are amazing for under 500 bucks. No excuse (unless you are as poor as I am about to become, due to retirement) to not have a good clarinet in good repair. Modern design, construction and materials help make this possible nowadays.
And yes, years ago, I've heard a world-class pro play a difficult piece a Buffet B12, and it was amazing! You would have thought it was a good R13 or better. In 2015, I think there are much better "student" instruments than the B12. That's progress.
Tom
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Author: Gene Chieffo
Date: 2015-01-17 16:32
In that video lecture by Sharon Thompson on the Bonade sound, she says that Portnoy played in the Philadelphia Orchestra on a stock Buffet mouthpiece for years before developing is own line of mouthpieces.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-01-17 18:53
Gene -
Buffet stock mouthpieces used to be made from Chedeville's second-level blanks. They were dreadful as delivered but could be made into excellent players. I have a couple.
I haven't seen the Sharon Thompson video. Is it on the Web, or do you have a copy?
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk
Date: 2015-01-20 05:13
Did you put [bracket]url[bracket] .. [bracket]/url[bracket] tags around it (check the Help/Rules link)? (If I actually type brackets, the parser thinks I've typed a URL and the tags don't show up, so I've spelled them out. Use the example on the Help page.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ep6akP_4qY
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-01-20 06:23
You create a link by putting < and > (no spaces) around the URL.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Wisco99
Date: 2015-01-21 00:26
A great instrument makes it easier, but a great player sounds great on virtually anything. Here is James Galway playing 16 different flutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0n3n3N3SOY
Even more mind boggling, here is a recording of jazz great Charlie "Bird" Parker in Toronto playing a white plastic Grafton alto sax. He was given the horn right before the concert because he had his in hock for his fix. He still sounds just as great as always.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8fnoVgNSvc
As long as the pads seal, a truly great musician seems to be able to sound great on almost anything. I need all the help I can get.
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Author: Wisco99
Date: 2015-01-21 00:41
David B,
I never heard of Coltrane carrying his tenor around in a paper bag in NYC. A tenor is way too big and heavy for that. I know that Miles Davis would show up for a jazz gig with Diz and Bird with his trumpet in a paper bag back when he was a freshman at Julliard. That paper bag could be worth a fortune now at an auction. Wait, I think I have that paper bag under my sink.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2015-01-21 02:54
Wisco, the installation of that bag under your sink probably means the bag isn't worth as much now.
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