 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Vubble3
Date: 2014-12-23 06:46
What about lemon essense oil?
Buffet Bb R13 A RC Prestige
buffet chadash and moennig barrels
Lomax classic lig
b40 lyre
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-12-23 07:22
You need a vegetable oil that does not become rancid or oxidise into a varnish. I've been advised to use either peanut oil or almond oil. I prefer almond oil with about 5% acohol to improve penetration.
Tony F.
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2014-12-23 17:06
What is commonly referred to lemon oil is mineral oil with lemon essence added. It is of no benefit on its own.
I would not use coconut oil as bore oil.
There are people who have done research and make products. Doctor's products is one. Naylor's is another.
Steve Ocone
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-12-23 21:04
I had sweet almond oil get gummy and sticky with time ... and it dissolved the eye-dropper rubber bulb.
I'd check with "The Doctor" ...
Tom
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-12-23 21:41
I use just a little olive oil on a swab. Then I get a dry swab for the excess and run that through a ittle while and just let the clarinet sit. Works fine.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-12-24 02:51
+2 Doctor's Products. Wonderful stuff.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-12-24 04:44
Why choose coconut oil?
I second the Doctor's products as first choice but if price is an issue then almond oil has been widely and successfully used for many years and is cheap.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-12-24 05:11
Add another for The Doctor's bore oil. I also use one of his oiling rigs and like it a lot.
Tony F.-- What do you mean by "5% alcohol". Is that 95% almond oil and 5% absolute alcohol or 95% almond oil and 5% of some dilution of alcohol? If the latter, what is the concentration of the dilution? I am assuming the latter since any absolute alcohol is pretty expensive and somewhat hard to come by. Is it ethanol, methanol, isopropyl alcohol or . . . .?
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Author: dibble
Date: 2014-12-24 06:22
Also, coconut oil hardens at, I think, below 65 or so degrees. I imagine that this would be terrible for the wood of a clarinet.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-12-24 07:37
Bart Wrote:
"Tony F.-- What do you mean by "5% alcohol". Is that 95% almond oil and 5% absolute alcohol or 95% almond oil and 5% of some dilution of alcohol? If the latter, what is the concentration of the dilution? I am assuming the latter since any absolute alcohol is pretty expensive and somewhat hard to come by. Is it ethanol, methanol, isopropyl alcohol or . . . "
Hi Bart,
I use 5% by volume of straight isopropyl alcohol because it's what I have readily to hand, but I guess methyl alcohol or even Vodka would work as well.
Tony F.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2014-12-24 18:09
I'd never use coconut oil. I'm an amateur at restoration work, but fwiw, my experience with clarinets from flea markets, junktiques stores and yard sales convinces me that aromatic food oil is a mess waiting to happen. It's a "Free Food Here!" sign for anything small enough to crawl into the case (and make whoopie, raise families and eventually die in there ).
Nobody decides one day, "Well, I'm never going to play the clarinet again, so I guess I'd better clean out anything with an aroma before I put the case away." Give that aromatic clarinet a nice long nap in the closet or the attic and next time someone opens the case, the stink could make a goat gag.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2014-12-24 18:33
I would be concerned about most food type oils becoming rancid.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-12-24 19:20
dibble wrote:
> Also, coconut oil hardens at, I think, below 65 or so degrees.
> I imagine that this would be terrible for the wood of a clarinet.
The fatty acids in coconut oil solidify in 72-76F range. Not exactly ideal, as it would be doing it every time you play.
BTW triglycerides do crystallize, but it isn't anything like water, so it won't have any worse impact than other vegetable oil crystallization. Granted Almond oil solidifies at 0F, which is only likely if clarinet was checked in luggage. But to my knowledge none of Backun air shipped barrels had any issues, so it can be put to rest.
If this is of your concern, cottonseed oil would be the best choice (melting point -55F/-48C
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-12-24 20:37
Some of the clarinets made by Buffet nowadays coat the wood with lacquer... I wonder if the bore and tone holes are coated as well? So, how does "bore oil" help or hurt clarinets like this.
In addition, I guess greenline material doesn't benefit from oiling ... Since Buffet's most expensive instruments use greenline inserts, can some oils actually break down this material?
An oil leak, on one car that I owned, actually "ate up" some rubber grommets and bushings. So, oil might not be good for hard rubber instruments ... I am really concerned of bore oil used in/on a wooden barrel or key oil that might find it's way to the hard rubber ...
Tom
Post Edited (2014-12-24 21:40)
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-12-24 22:02
TomS wrote:
> Some of the clarinets made by Buffet nowadays coat the wood
> with lacquer... I wonder if the bore and tone holes are coated
> as well? So, how does "bore oil" help or hurt clarinets like
> this.
>
are you sure? not burnishing/french polish?
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-12-25 07:14
Tony F wrote:
"I use 5% by volume of straight isopropyl alcohol because it's what I have readily to hand, but I guess methyl alcohol or even Vodka would work as well."
If that is "straight" drugstore isopropyl, it is typically a 70% solution of alcohol (at least in the U.S.). That would give you about 1.5% water in your final solution. At that rate, the alcohol should be able to keep the water in suspension in the oil so that it doesn't cause any problems.
Using Vodka might make things more fun.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-12-25 09:12
Bart Wrote:
"If that is "straight" drugstore isopropyl, it is typically a 70% solution of alcohol (at least in the U.S.). That would give you about 1.5% water in your final solution. At that rate, the alcohol should be able to keep the water in suspension in the oil so that it doesn't cause any problems."
The isoprop I'm using is straight undiluted spirit. No water. I've never had a problem with this almond oil-isoprop mix, doesn't go gummy or smelly.
Tony F.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2014-12-25 20:50
Thanks, Tony. I wasn't trying to be difficult. It's just that I am a retired chemistry instructor and wanted to be sure I understood what you were saying. The isopropyl we can get easily in this country is 70% (for some reason, that disinfects better than higher concentrations). If we want to pay more, we can get 90%, but the only place I know of to get absolute (100%) here is from a lab supply company. The last 5% of water is difficult to get out of alcohol, so getting absolute here is considerably more expensive. Because of the way the molecules interact, one of my standard demonstrations was to show that 50 ml of water plus 50 ml of alcohol produces less than 100 ml of solution.
When we switched from spirit duplicators to Xerox, I grabbed all the left over duplicator fluid. It was not pure, but close enough whenever I needed methanol. I did have a 500 ml bottle of absolute ethanol but, given that I was working with high school students, that only came out when I couldn't substitute something else. In college, my wife had a project for which she needed 50 ml of absolute ethanol. The smallest quantity the supply room had was 500 ml, so that's what they gave her. Somehow, the excess got spilled into orange juice and we had to consume it to clean up the mess. It took us several days to get it cleaned up.
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Author: Fresh Soren
Date: 2014-12-25 20:58
1. Do not use coconut oil it's extremely thick at room temperature.
2. Motor oil is an entirely different story and should come near any valuable natural substances such as wood or rubber.
3. Greenline is made of wood and rubber (I believe?) so unless Buffet says not to oil, I say keep oiling like usual.
4. I have always used extra virgin olive oil and my clarinet is working perfect and there is not gross scent or mucks of oil dripping.
5. Use common sense.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2014-12-26 04:08
Bart,
I was heartened to read of your selfless public spirited actions. Sometimes an olive can help with the clean-up process. I used to work in an industry where we used absolute isoprop in industrial quantities, so when I left I made sure that I had enough to last me for a long time. At the rate I use it it will outlast me.
Tony F.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-12-26 20:13
Greenline is a synthetic material comprised wood chips/dust impregnated with resin so should never be oiled.
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Author: Darktrax
Date: 2014-12-28 22:05
I am astonished at the variety of opinion about "Bore Oil Folklore" in the context of wood clarinets. Surely by now there must be some perceived accumulated knowledge that has the benefit of clear evidence without obvious vested interest.
Clearly the clarinet will suffer its greatest attack from the (extreme) condensed moisture, complete with all the bacteria, acids, enyzmes, etc. that would eventually render a reed useless.
Granted, a bore is not a reed, but it is still the cellulose left from cells that had DNA. My first thought is that to seal the bore against this water, one needs either a impervious robust coating that adheres, or an infusion into the first few microns of the surface that does the same thing.
Probably a clear diffusion oil as might be used in a vacuum diffusion pump, on the grounds that it cannot evaporate (the whole point is that it will remain an oil at pressures less than 1E-8 millibar). It has a downside (£400 / litre, though this might be on a par with some bore oils advertised).
I settled for a little bit of left-over tube of perfluorinated grease, which is used as a shaft lubricant on spacecraft, and in vacuum chambers, but is readily available at well-known component distribution stores. I think to myself that most cheap silicone grease might also work.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-12-29 01:24
IF you are convinced that oiling the bore is the right way to try to prevent cracking then there's no point in using anything other than Doctor's Products bore oil. Some people think that waxing the bore is preferable. I've used both procedures and haven't decided , yet, which is more appropriate. Repeated waxings may reduce the bore ID.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Darktrax
Date: 2014-12-29 15:44
You are so right Bob. The key phrase is "IF you are convinced".
As it happens, along with the manufacturers like Buffet, I am not, unless in the context of recovering a dried-out abused piece of precious wood that may have shrunk, split or become vulnerable in places.
Re: Repeated waxings reducing bore - I think not. The wax partly goes into the wood, and partly evaporates, and in any event when finally rubbed, is so thin that to lay on enough to become significant against the accuracy of the original bore, and other factors that affect dimensions, would strain credulity.
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