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 New Vandoren V21
Author: cxgreen48 
Date:   2014-12-09 03:16

Looks like Vandoren is offering a new cut of reed. Apparently it is a cross between the V12 and 56 Rue Lepics.

http://dansr.com/vandoren/products/191/412/

Anyone know anything about these or try them yet?

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: tylerleecutts 
Date:   2014-12-09 04:54

Finally, a compromise!! Hopefully these reeds compete well with the Reserve line of reeds. . That's all I play now. But thankfully they exist- there needs to be a healthy compromise between the V12 and Rue Lepics. Hopefully it's the best of both worlds truly.



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2014-12-09 07:39

Gosh that actually sound interesting.


I am currently auditing the V12 for the first time in twenty years, and I am a little underwhelmed by the lack of the same 'focus' that I can get with the 56. There seems to be a nice color palette on the V12 but not enough of a draw to pull me away from the 56.........now another reed !!!!!





............Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: cxgreen48 
Date:   2014-12-09 08:05

I have always adjusted my V12s with the ATG system, which after sanding, the V12 becomes a kind of V12-56RL hybrid design. Perhaps these are the reeds for me... once they are available to order.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: nbclarinet 
Date:   2014-12-09 08:11

Does anyone know when they will be available in the US?

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: James S 
Date:   2014-12-09 08:57

They should be shipping by the end of this month/beginning of the new year!

James
Owner, James' Clarinet Shop
www.jamesclarinetshop.com

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: nellsonic 
Date:   2014-12-09 12:30

There is at least one American online retailer taking orders for them now, to be delivered next month. I'm curious to try them, but I need to know how the strength compares to the other Vandoren offerings. Has anyone see an updated reed strength comparison chart?

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: sonicbang 
Date:   2014-12-09 14:45

From the description it seems it's a V12 with a more tapered blank. You can try this at home if you have a reed shaper or if you dare to experiment with glass and sandpaper. Altering the taper without redesign the vamp is a cheap solution however it can be sold as a 'totally new design'. This is smart step from the Vandoren company.

Next step is to offer a Rue Lepic in a more traditional taper to offer let's say a more tonal weight and robust sound while maintaining quick response. Or a Traditional cut which is unfiled and has the blank thickness of the V12 and the same taper of the Rue Lepic. The possibilities are endless...just as marketing hype.

Why this product isn't present on the Vandoren site? I didn't found it amond the existing offerings nor in the new products section.

Mark

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: PaulIsaac 
Date:   2014-12-13 01:02

http://dansr.com/files/V21_Specifications_new.pdf

Above is a link to the specs for the V21 reed, including a comparison chart with other Vandoren reeds.



Post Edited (2014-12-13 01:07)

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: donald 
Date:   2014-12-13 03:37

Speaking as someone who has made my own reeds in addition to regularly adjusting commercial reeds, that "specifications" link from Vandoren tells me almost nothing I want to know.
However, it is good to see that according to their "comparison chart" the V21 #4 sits in between V12 4 and 3.75- which (if the chart can be trusted which is doubtful) is exactly where i need a commercial reed to be.
dn

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Caroline Smale 
Date:   2014-12-13 03:58

From the diagrams of reed profiles contained in the VD link it would look like one could convert an existing V12 reed into a V21 by planing a small angled amount from each side of the butt end (and perhaps the very rear section of the vamp) with a sharp block plane.

Info provided doen't state whether the V21 tip shape will be that of the V12 or the Rue 56 though why these two should have different shapes in the first place beats me.

Perhaps we should try this on the blue box reed as well.



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: cxgreen48 
Date:   2014-12-13 05:28

Perhaps these will be similar to the Gonzalez FOFs which I also like a lot

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: donald 
Date:   2014-12-13 11:07

Ah, i didn't "scroll down" on the dash-sheet, that's a bit more helpful

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: tylerleecutts 
Date:   2014-12-22 01:10

A thick blank and unfiled cut would resemble the original Reserve reeds, in the red box. Those happened to be my favorites, and now enjoy both of the new Reserve offerings.



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2014-12-22 01:25

Dear JAY,



Sounds like you are not really fond of the Rue Lepic. As a Rue Lepic user who is experimenting (with a modicum of success) with the V12s, I'd say that I am actually looking forward to what these things can do. For me the V12s feel more diffuse than the Rue Lepic. Although the V12 does have lots of colors. If there is a V12 with more focus, that would be a good thing.






....................Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: cxgreen48 
Date:   2014-12-22 01:56

I have not played these yet, but I am expected the V21 to sound like the V12, but with more center and focus to the sound, so I don't agree with your assessment JAY.

Also, I would argue that the the Reserve Classics have gained popularity, contrary to your claim. It seems like there's a good amount of people on here that use it, as well as a decent amount of other clarinetists at my school.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: tylerleecutts 
Date:   2014-12-22 02:22

I agree- many professional players and almost entire college studios have made the switch to reserve products, whether it be the reeds or mouthpieces. The only thing consistent about Vandoren these days is their inconsistency. . The V21 reeds will likely be well sorted, unlike the current market. I should never order a box of reeds and find 3 reeds nearly green and fresh.



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2014-12-22 02:59

Since I AM a disagreeable old codger, I will go ahead and play the 'disagreeable, old codger' and represent the other view of Reserve vs Vandoren.


Yes, many professionals have tried the Rico mouthpieces, but many have abandoned them as they are mostly too resistant.


The top Rico reeds are gaining in popularity amongst professional orchestral musicians but Vandoren still is the most popular reed.


And whether we refer to reeds OR mouthpieces, Vandorens are as consistent and are as fine a professional product as you can find. I have found another brand (using a different method of finishing) of mouthpiece to be so consistent from one to the other that is almost scary, but Vandoren does NOT have a quality problem despite what others may claim. And I say this as someone who pulls no punches regarding quality such as the poor finishing we see on most new Buffets (the spongy synthetic padding they place under the crow's foot and at other places where the gluing is so bad it just falls off, and the cheapest pads ever brought to market). Come on Buffet, you're getting over three grand a piece for that.





...............Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: tylerleecutts 
Date:   2014-12-22 05:19

Music performance seems to be the only industry where we tolerate and sometimes deny serious problems in consistency. Buffet certainly has noticeable flaws in production, but you can't deny Vandoren does as well, as well as other products.

The Reserve mouthpieces may seem too resistant, but perhaps that is because some players try to use reeds that are simply too hard. The resistance is namely in the inner chamber, which can be alleviated easily if the player desired. However, for many of the Reserve converts (including myself), the resistance of the mouthpiece is healthy.

Vandoren is namely the most popular reed for two reasons: Indonctrination and Length of Market Share. Namely, the first is to blame. The Reserve products gained huge momentum I believe when the branding was changed. Many dismissed the Rico name for no reason other than their own prejudices.

Like I said before, I should never open a box of reeds and find several of them to be either absolutely unplayable, or GREEN. It is also very disadvantageous to students when 5 M30 mouthpieces play and measure drastically different.

Dismissing an issue as "acceptable" does not in turn validate the existence of it.



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Alseg 
Date:   2014-12-22 05:56

Will the VD elf now put 3 decent reeds in a box,or just the usual 2?

Ps...I am not in Oz....i am n Singapore, for now,anyway,


CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
412 889 8202

http://www.clarinetconcepts.com




Post Edited (2014-12-22 05:58)

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: tylerleecutts 
Date:   2014-12-22 06:44

Dr. Segal, glad to see we agree. It seems it is rather happenstance to get a good box of reeds from them.



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: cxgreen48 
Date:   2014-12-22 08:16

I must say I don't think I've ever had a super green looking reed. Maybe some had a very very slight green tinge, but I definitely wouldn't call them green.

I still find Vandoren to give me the longest lasting and best sounding reeds, although I also do a considerable amount of "surgery" on them...

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: tylerleecutts 
Date:   2014-12-22 08:21

Of course they aren't going to be super green. Nevertheless, the aging process seems to be failing as of late.



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Wes 
Date:   2014-12-22 10:26

Out of curiosity, I ordered a box of V21s last week and they should arrive in about 2 or 3 weeks. I expect that they will play a lot like my favorite V12s with perhaps a slightly brighter and sharper sound.

R56 reeds were fine for me but a little bit sharp, due to the narrower butt and I did not buy more than one box. V12s are great although I always do some careful sanding and soaking in saliva for a few days before trying them. usually giving 10 good reeds per box of 10.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2014-12-22 17:52

I can use roughly six Vandoren reeds out of a group of ten for performance (that is, after proper break-in period).


The Rico mouthpieces are "thuddy." No amount of toying with reed strength helps.





.............Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: tylerleecutts 
Date:   2014-12-25 17:46

The Rico mouthpieces work for me. .



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: clarinet60 
Date:   2015-01-31 22:56

"The Rico mouthpieces are "thuddy." No amount of toying with reed strength helps." Perhaps Paul should indicate that this is only his experience, and his opinion, and that others may have had better results as have I. I find the Rico mouthpieces to be excellent, and yes, you need to work on the proper reed for this application.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2015-02-01 02:55

Actually this was the experience of a colleague of mine who I trust. Personally I am not interested in the Rico product line.






.............Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: tylerleecutts 
Date:   2015-02-01 03:22

If you are too proud to try these mouthpieces, please don't use someone else's anecdotal experience to bash them here. Plenty of users on this board have tried and loved these mouthpieces, including myself.

Remember that for the professional level products, the Rico name is dead. D'Addario is handling and branding all of the pro level products now, whereas before they were only handling them.



Post Edited (2015-02-01 03:26)

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: clarinet60 
Date:   2015-02-01 04:37

100% agree!!! Every clarinetist has different likes and preferences!!!!

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: WhitePlainsDave 
Date:   2015-02-01 05:50

It's my understanding that the D'Addario people have not changed the Reserve mouthpieces since bringing them into their product fold, barring relabeling.

Of course all is subject to change.

The D'Addario Reserve reed product line though, both Reserve and Reserve Classic do, as I understand it , represent shifts from the Rico Reserve product.

I like all 3 reed products. I also think the new D'Addario reed products to be superior to that I played under the Rico Reserve label.

I admit that my findings are anecdotal evidence as the D'Addario reed product line hasn't been out long enough for me to claim large sample size testing (and I would still just be one person doing the testing). Still more, as stated, products, especially a brand and model of reed, are always subject to change.

By no way or means are the mouthpiece products anything but quite good, IMHO and that of many other players, and, if nothing else, anything but shabby. Clearly we can disagree on just how good, but I think it would be unfair to say that significant work to produce this product line, regardless of whose name its under, including collaboration with Richie Hawley and Mark Nuccio, didn't go into producing this strong mouthpiece contender.

(No affiliations.)

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Ed 
Date:   2015-02-01 06:36

I have only had a brief experience with the V21, but they seem promising.

As far as the other products mentioned here, I like the Rico/D'Addario reeds. They are very good reeds that are consistent and well designed.

As far as the mouthpieces, I have also found them to be a bit unresponsive and with some more resistance than I find comfortable. I tried them with a variety of reeds and strengths and played it for a time in rehearsals and performances, but ultimately decided it was not for me. I tend to like a more free blowing and responsive mouthpiece, which I find to give me more freedom and versatility. I have a number of colleagues who had the same results. I even had a top mouthpiece craftsman tweak it for me and still did not care for it.

There are lots of mouthpieces and reeds out there for a variety of tastes and styles. What works for me may not work for others and vice versa.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Exiawolf 
Date:   2015-02-16 08:50

Are there any new reports on the V21's? They've been out for a decent time now, but seemed to have kind of just dropped off the edge of the forum.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Wes 
Date:   2015-02-16 09:47

Tlhe V21s I tried were beautifully made of fine looking cane. They played a lot like V12s, but an iota sharper in pitch, likely due to the narrower butt end. I won't buy any more because I'm happy with the V12s and do not need to have a higher pitch center with my equipment.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: cxgreen48 
Date:   2015-02-16 10:17

I just received my box a few days ago. I've only tried one so far, but it plays decently -- kind of like a V12, but with slightly more clarity to the sound. I may do an update once I try a few more, but the V21s seems promising.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: faltpihl 2017
Date:   2015-02-16 11:30

I am really liking the V21 Ive tried. Out of 3 reeds i opened so far, all were more or less perfectly balanced. Ive never had this with any cane reed before.
I played a bit with my ATG just because I wanted to see the difference, but they were really good out of the box.

Do you know places that stock the V21? Preferably in europe, but mostly other than prowinds (mine took months to arrive from them)

Regards
Peter

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: sax panther 
Date:   2015-02-16 14:38

some strong views on the d'addario reserve mouthpieces here...I've got an X10 and don't find it resistant at all. works fine with a V12 3.5 or reserve 3.5 for me. It's not my primary mouthpiece, but if my Grabner broke I wouldn't be upset about gigging on the X10.

I bought a box of reserve reeds though last week, and don't find the consistency superior to Vandoren - I went for 3.5s but there seems to be a mixture of strengths in there! the first one I tried had me thinking that maybe these ran a little softer than the equivalent V12...then the next two were so hard it was a struggle to get a sound out! When I get the time I'll have to carefully go through them and tweak them. Nice sound on the ones that did work though.

Granted this is the first time I've bought a box of these - purely my anecdotal experience. maybe I just got a bad box.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2015-02-16 16:23

If you break them in properly they have a wonderfully round sound with a center to them. They are their own animal, not just a combination of the V12 and the 56.


They are ideal for me, though as I have said in another spot on the Board, I had preferred the sound and feel of the 56s over the V12s despite the V12s tendency for more colors. So the V21 reeds are a center focused reed (unlike the V12s) but have more "bloom."






.........Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: yaseungkim 
Date:   2015-02-16 21:13

Can a bad reed be broken into a good reed, is this possible?
I gave up on vandoren reeds as too of many bad reeds are in a box. My experience is that about 80% are not playable in an orchestra settings.

My son likes the grand concert select thick blank 3.0, occasionally he plays reserve 3.5 classic or traditional. But we had more success with the gcs.



Post Edited (2015-02-16 21:40)

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2015-02-16 21:45

Your percentage may vary, depending on what mouthpiece you match the reeds with and how hard a strength you choose to start with.

Bad reeds generally can't simply be "broken in" to turn them good, but it is possible to adjust many reeds that don't play well out of the box to make them playable. This usually involves scraping small amounts of material from places in the reed to provide balanced vibration on both sides. There have been many, many discussions of this here, and you can find it with the BB's search function.

Adjustment will rarely make an unplayable reed "wonderful," but it can make a balky reed serviceable.

Karl

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: maxopf 
Date:   2015-02-16 22:13

yaseungkim: My teacher plays V12s exclusively in a professional orchestra, so it's possible to get a number of good reeds in a box if you break them in right and adjust them to your specifications.
I've been using Peter Leuthner reeds lately, which I love. They have a link on their website to a PDF with some adjustment tips, if your son wants to experiment with adjusting reeds to make them more to his liking. Warning - it will take time and some totally destroyed reeds before he gets the hang of it, so have him practice on some bad reeds first.
http://www.plclass.com/plc06/dow/22.pdf

(Edit: The PDF is likely translated from German, so some of it can be a little confusing. When it says "Here you can try to clamp in the reed a bit more towards the mouthpiece slot to see if it will become heavier," they mean you should position the reed further up than you usually do. The reed tip should overhang the mouthpiece tip slightly.)



Post Edited (2015-02-17 10:54)

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2015-02-17 00:28

maxopf wrote:

> Warning - it will take time and
> some totally destroyed reeds before he gets the hang of it, so
> have him practice on some bad reeds first.

Just to clarify (because I misread this at first) - have him practice reed adjustment on bad reeds first, not practice playing on bad reeds (to make him more appreciative of the good ones?).

Although, I think this needs to be modified a little in any case. "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear" is a saying I've heard and read many times relating to reed adjustment. If the reed is completely unplayable at the start, your son will never know in the end, if several attempts to improve it are unsuccessful and the reed is still unplayable, whether he's ruined it or it was not a usable piece of cane in the first place. Some imperfections of grain can't be repaired or compensated for.

I'd start trying to work with reeds that can be played with some effort but not with a really satisfactory quality. The ones that seem hopeless probably are - just go on to the next one.

Karl

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2015-02-17 00:47

Let's not get ahead of ourselves !!!!!


You NEED to re-hydrate a reed BEFORE you can make any assessment of a reed's playability. This process can easily take three or four days (and a few days longer in cold climates during the Winter when the air is really really dry).


I pull out all ten reeds from a box and play on them five minutes at a time. As I put them down on the counter, I put them in a rough order. That order changes from day to day until they begin to "settle." Sometimes the a reed that is about LAST in the first play session becomes almost FIRST by the end (and vice versa). So how on EARTH is anyone out there making a proper decision based on pulling a reed out of a box and just blowing on it and passing judgement?


It cannot be done.........without wasting YOUR time and YOUR money.






.................Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: maxopf 
Date:   2015-02-17 01:13

Thanks for clarifying kdk.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: yaseungkim 
Date:   2015-02-17 01:24

Before each recital, I've been taking two boxes of reeds and have my son play all of them about two weeks in advance of the recital. I will have him select five best reeds, and he will play each of them five minutes everyday. The rest gets stored as MP guard to protect MP tip.

But it appears as though my son likes the quality of tone and responsiveness of reserve reeds over vandoren. .. and he likes the grand concert select much better for their consistency.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2015-02-17 01:37

Paul, do you find that a reed that produces nothing but a whoosh of air ever improves enough with re-hydration to be usable? I do much the same thing you do and don't disagree about the process, but I think there are reeds that are just not destined to be anything but, perhaps, compost that I routinely discard on the first try.

I guess it doesn't hurt anything (except maybe your bottom lip) to give them a few days and *then* toss them. :)

Karl

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: cxgreen48 
Date:   2015-02-17 02:04

Regarding the break-in process, specifically with the V21s...

As stated before, I have only tried one V21 so far, but I specifically remember on the first day, I was a bit disappointed about how it played out of the box -- hard, stuffy, dull, airy.

Fortunately the second day, it was noticeably softer and easier to play and had a nice round sound with a bit of clarity to it.

Also it has generally remained that way since then with very little warping on the bottom side of the reed as well. Just a personal anecdote.

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2015-02-17 04:52

Hmmmmm....... You guys are talking about STRENGTH.


If your reeds only produce a "whoosh of air," I would humbly suggest you use a softer strength reed.


I refer to 'thudiness' versus 'clarity.' Often I find the best four reeds "right-out-of -the-box" do not hold that position throughout the rehydration process. And as I stated earlier, some of the thuddy reeds become crystal clear with a bit of loving care.


Once they settle, you can balance or shave to taste all you want, but if you don't have an accurate starting point the whole exercise is rather pointless.






.............Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Jamnik 
Date:   2015-02-17 08:47

My daughter likes both the Rue 56 (3.5+) and the V12 (3.5). Bought her a box of the V21's a few weeks ago and the 3.5 is too soft. It fell between the 56 and the V12 on the chart. She wasn't very impressed with them on her Richard Hawkins mp, but another friend of hers loves them.

Jamnik

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: tylerleecutts 
Date:   2015-02-17 08:52

I tried the V21s recently. I personally prefer the D'Addario reeds (Reserve Classic 3.5+), and the older Rico Reserve 3.5+ reeds (in the red box). A friend of mine said "If you play D'Addario/Rico mouthpieces, play their reeds. If you play Vandoren, you should probably play Vandoren reeds."

I think this is generally true, but I know several of my colleagues in school play the Reserve mouthpieces with Vandoren reeds, and vice versa and sound fine. I use the Reserve X0 and like the Reserve Classic reeds with it.

Overall, the V21 reed was pretty nice, and remarkably similar to my Reserve Classic reeds. However, I still think my Reserve reeds were a cut above. However, altogether a good reed. Definitely better than the other Vandoren cuts for me.



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: yaseungkim 
Date:   2015-02-17 08:58

maxopf: I appreciate the URL link you posted, I printed them out and we will try the steps in the article... these are the fun information I love to try out.

Some of you guys come across as a jerk sometimes, and perhaps I to you (no offense intended), but all in all, you guys provide some useful information. Most of all, years of experience that you all share, that's the reason why I stick around on this forum, and I thank you.



Post Edited (2015-02-17 09:18)

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Exiawolf 
Date:   2015-02-19 18:34

Vandoren "just" released a video of Martin Frost trying out the new reeds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgZXvsg74eY



Post Edited (2015-02-19 18:34)

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: AAAClarinet 
Date:   2015-02-19 19:27

"They are blue". Hahahaha

AAAClarinet

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2015-02-20 00:24

Martin Frost can do anything on the clarinet and it sounds natural. He is amazing.






..............Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: BJPIII 
Date:   2015-02-22 21:59

I've been playing Vandoren blue box and V-12 strength 4 for about 3 years now. I just got a box of the V21 strength 4 reeds. After going to the break-in process, I found only 4 of the 10 playable. I found all 10 played "hard", harder than the blue box or V12 #4s. According to the Vandoren comparison chart, the V21 4s are supposed to be a tad softer than the V12 or blue box 4s. Maybe this was just a fluke box. Overall, I was unimpressed by them. As long as I have played Vandoren over my career (35+ years), I think I may have to try the D'Addario or Rico Reserve reeds.



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2015-02-22 22:44

I don't want to belabor the point, but I'd give it 4-5 days minimum before making any permanent marks on which reed stands at which ranking.


And to really put a fine point on it, I have STILL experienced some further settling with these reeds .......more than usual. My number "two reed" (an august position to be sure) became somewhat logey in the second week of pure playing (no holds barred), so much so I started to skip over it (and found as I plowed through the set of ten that "nine" really became winner).


So the V21 are actually "acting" more like a weird genetic cross rather than a combination of the cuts between V12s and 56s. The V12 do take a bit longer to break-in and they can be (for lack of a better term) moody. The 56s tend to be really straight forward in how they behave once broken-in and don't change much at all in their usable life.


Still, the sound (coming from my previous preference for the 56s) is wonderful and I will most certainly keep using these guys.








................Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: tylerleecutts 
Date:   2015-02-23 09:05

Also, Martin Frost is using a new model of Vandoren mouthpiece in the video. . Ironic that they're displaying the reeds when it isn't even his normal setup!



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2015-02-23 09:18

Wow, thanks for pointing that out!!! Clearly it's that "Black Diamond 5" that has been mentioned in another thread.

So it's real, and it sounds half way decent ;-)


I guess we'll all have to buy one.


Now why isn't Vandoren showing it on their website along with the V21 Video?




Strange times






..........Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Exiawolf 
Date:   2015-02-27 07:44

After my 5 day break in process here is my report (3,5 strength):

Out of the box of 10, three came out perfect for performance, three were able to be worked into fine ensemble playing reeds, two were a tad to soft for my liking, and the last two were resistant and stuffy. To me that's a fairly great box, the three that I said were great for ensemble playing come VERY close to the performance ready reeds, however their just missing that extra crispness for performance

Compared to V12's I find that they are generally as described. They seem to hold a centered tone a bit better than my V12's and have the same color. The only thing that to me is a bit dissatisfactional is that they miss a tiny bit of warmth that V12's have. Lastly, for some reason the cane for these reeds looked and felt a bit more refined than my last boxes of V12 reeds (Thumbs up). Overall, I'm quite happy with this new cut, and will most likely continue using them. In fact I might use them over V12 in my upcoming state audition :o

Equipment: CL4 Series 13, M/O Ligature, Buffet E12F, Vandoren V21 (3,5)

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: rtaylor 
Date:   2015-02-28 00:31

Those that have used the V21 so far, how close would you say the Vandoren strength chart is?

It says the #3 V21 is slightly softer than a #3 V12 and a #3,5 is softer than a
#3 1/2 V12.



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2015-02-28 01:12

I never found the strength chart at all helpful. My strength reeds never matched the suggested strengths for any given mouthpiece of theirs.






..............Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: harim0suprem0 
Date:   2015-06-21 14:44

Yeah, can anyone confirm the accuracy of the new V21 strength comparison chart? Are v21s really more softer than V12 reeds?

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2015-06-21 14:51

no






.............Paul Aviles



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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Morrigan 
Date:   2015-06-21 17:14

I've played on a box for about a week now. I opened a box of V12s at the same time to make an accurate comparison.
For me & my mouthpiece, I really like them. They have a richer sound than the V12s which almost seemed too buzzy in comparison.

However in terms of strength, they started out harder and have quickly gone softer, and have lost a bit of focus in the sound. Maybe another week of playing and they'll stabilise? We shall see.

_______________________________________________
Principal Clarinet, Central Band of the Royal Air Force, London
Masters Student, Royal College of Music, London
https://soundcloud.com/tieraci

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2015-06-21 17:21

To which question?

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 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2015-06-21 19:29

Using number four strength Vandorens, I found V12s and V21s to be very close in strength (any difference to me was negligible.....couldn't say one was stronger than another).


I also got a slightly different result than "Morrigan," in that the V21s seemed more focused (pointed in sound). Coming from Rue Lepic 56 reeds I cannot get enough focus out the V12s and have given up on them.






.............Paul Aviles



Reply To Message
 
 Re: New Vandoren V21
Author: Morrigan 
Date:   2015-06-22 02:21

I think I wasn't clear - they're definitely more focussed than a V12 for me, however the sound seemed to have spread as I've played them in. Hoping that changes as I play them in further.

_______________________________________________
Principal Clarinet, Central Band of the Royal Air Force, London
Masters Student, Royal College of Music, London
https://soundcloud.com/tieraci

Reply To Message
 
 New Vandoren V21
Author: Shrdlu2 
Date:   2018-01-26 23:07

Hi!

I have been playing (regular) clarinet since 1962, as well as various sizes of saxophone. I also play the bass clarinet.

There is far too much discussion anymore about brands of instruments, reeds, mouthpieces and (unbelievably) even ligatures. Were I trying to start now, I think I would be so confused that I would not bother.

Things are nowhere near as difficult as today's online "experts" would have you believe.

For the regular clarinet and all saxophones, all I have ever used are the orange box Rico reeds, and they are fine. My wife had classical training on the violin and piano. She knew nothing about woodwind, but, based on what she had heard in "classical" circles, she was scornful about Rico reeds and tried to get me to switch to Vandoren. I still use the original mouthpiece that came with my Besson clarinet. I have never felt any need to replace it.

The bass clarinet is a different story. I can't afford a new Selmer. They cost the same as a deposit on a house! They aren't THAT good. I was able to get an ebonite Selmer Bundy bass clarinet on eBay for only $300. It turned out to be pretty good. It has only the one speaker key, which isn't ideal, but one can live with that.

The problem with the bass clarinet is the weak middle register (from B to C an octave higher). These notes (especially from D to F#) cannot be pushed or they will squeak. I was once loaned a Selmer bass and even that lacked volume in that range - not good if one is playing with no mike and a loud drummer. (I play jazz.)

I got a Rico mouthpiece, because the horn came with a very poor Selmer C*. I experimented with four strengths of orange box Rico reeds and was able to soldier through with a #3. That middle register was always touch-and-go, with that setup.

After months of frustration, I bought a Vandoren B46 mouthpiece, which was said to be good for jazz. The article I read said that this French mouthpiece should really have a "French cut" reed, so I tried three Vandorens: the regular blue box ones, the V12 and the V21. I think those are the only bass clarinet ones that they do.

As soon as the blue box Vandoren went in (strength 3), it was like playing a different horn! The whole range, from bottom Eb through the high C, plays easily. The middle register is fine, though, as always, you have to tread carefully and not try to push the notes.

I then tried a V12. It felt like there was a sock stuck in the neck, so that went straight into the landfill.

Next, the newish V21, also a #3. Wow, the 21 stands for the 21st century. Imagine that! 21st Century Frog - see the 20th version of that on Youtube. (No reference to the French, just a Python quote.) Anyway, the V21 was just as good as the blue box reed.

Yes, yes, different things work for different people. I know that. These things work for me, and now I can play the bass clarinet much more freely.

There is a temptation to stick in some Eric Dolphy licks, but I will try hard to avoid that, lol.

I hope that this information is helpful.

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